TRN Unplugged Freebie! Misawa vs. Kobashi 3/1/03

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go on everybody.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a special bonus for you here on the podcast feed this week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We are releasing in full the latest edition of Top Rope Nation Unplugged.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's Jesse's weekly bonus show over on our Patreon feed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Here for everyone to hear.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I thought this was a particularly fun episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hope you all enjoy it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Jesse has a great guest on the show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's Steven Conway from the Speaking of Strongstyle Podcast.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they go back in time and review one of the all-time classic matches in pro wrestling history.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's the iconic masala versus Kobashi bout from pro wrestling Noah on March 1st 2003.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now this is part of Jesse's 40 match project that he's doing in 2006 and that he has been doing this year over on our Patreon feed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In fact Justin and I will be on the show in the next couple of weeks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: as part of the project to talk about the Red Heart Steve Austin match from WrestleMania 3.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to have access to upcoming episodes of TRN on Plug, TRN, extra TRN classics, add free editions of the weekly flagship show, make sure to sign up and support us on Patreon,

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is just a little taste of what patrons get every single week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully you enjoy it, click the link in the broadcast description, if you want to sign up and support us and get this bonus content all the time, enjoy.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I am your host, Jesse Velaskas, sitting in a different studio today, much better lighting than what you're used to.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And this will be show number one out of two this week.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be doing some current stuff on Thursday I'm heading to Dynamite tomorrow night here at the where-looking auditorium to see all which was super excited for and today We're going retro.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We've been doing this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We have now presented to you 40 metrics to about six

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[SPEAKER_02]: And this is Match number five, and with that, I have a repeat of Fender, who has also seen live wrestling here in the last week, and we'll get into that in a moment, Bill, and reintroduce him to the crowd, Steven Conway, from Speaking of Strongstyle.

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[SPEAKER_02]: How are you this evening?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, I'm a very glad to be here.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm excited to be talking about this match and Japanese wrestling is a whole, so I'm pumped up.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And we were talking very briefly before we went on the air about how I match like this will get your blood flowing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I watched it, of course, earlier today, so it would all be fresh in my mind and seen it many, many times.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And it just never gets old.

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[SPEAKER_03]: This one is one of the greats.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm fired up to spend some time talking about these two wonderful workers.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And before we talk about those two, I was going to ask you, we did talk about it off air a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Your experience with Tokyo, Joshi Pro Wrestling in Texas last week.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You want to go over a little bit of your experience.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, they were here for South by Southwest.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The big festival that we have here, the tech movie and old film, movie and film of the same thing in it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Music festival is the other part of it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And they did two nights at a convention center here and drew very, very well, almost 2,000 the first night about 1,500 to 2,000 night.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And they brought their brand of mayhem here to South by, it was very interesting to see, just because TJPW owned by the same people that owned DDT.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Also the same people that don't know a.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And in the DDT sense, there's comedy, there's, well, they have an idol group that comes out and sings to start the show.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of wackiness and then when they get down to business, they have some excellent excellent workers as well.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So you see a mix of everything and.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They did a great job promoting it because the people that showed up were festival-goers who were curious and also some people who were into just Japanese, idol, anime, culture.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You saw some people cosplaying as characters at this event and things, but a lot of people came there with a very open mind and responded to everything and seemed to really enjoy it and the wrestler seemed enthusiastic about the crowd.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So very positive experience.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I've seen them in

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[SPEAKER_03]: January 4th every year, it's right before a wrestle kingdom.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's Corrican Hall.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So you can go to one, walk out of Corrican Hall, turn left, go about 100 feet, up a flight of stairs to earth, Tokyo though.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I just went from one to the other real quick that day and it is a wild show, TJPW is never dull and it's like getting three shows at once because you really do get the wackiness, you get the idol culture stuff

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[SPEAKER_03]: uh... me what to know base is um... uh... it was a million mosh i don't want to just throw out a whole bunch of random names but there are some real top of the line workers and so when when they have their title matches and and decide we're gonna wrestle now after having a lot of fun

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[SPEAKER_03]: They're on level of a lot of the top people in all of Japanese women's wrestling.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So quite a show, really enjoyed it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And if they come around toward you because they seem to be doing these little mini tours of America once in a while, they'll be a WrestleMania weekend for instance if you're in Las Vegas for that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I recommend it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's a you will not be bored and they keep their shows to a nice tight two hours.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's good stuff.

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[SPEAKER_02]: That does sound like good stuff and just that a wide variety that you're talking about.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen clips of I haven't seen a full show of DDT, but I mean everybody knows, especially if you're a wrestling fan, the viral clip of Kenny Omega wrestling a blow up doll.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, of course.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, DDT strattles the line in particularly between being a pro wrestling company and a parody of a pro wrestling company.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes they succeed and sometimes they fall off that line.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The balance beam is not always friendly to them, but when it clicks it clicks.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And TJPW a little more on the wrestling side with some wackiness and DDT is kind of a lot of wackiness with some occasional wrestling.

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[SPEAKER_02]: hey there there audience knows what they're getting which is it's awesome on brand all the time so absolutely right and then a final question before we dive into the meat and potatoes what year did you go to Corrican Hall to watch Tokyo Josie Pro and then head to rest looking them.

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[SPEAKER_03]: To TJ PW that was that would have been in the very beginning of 2025 so not this past year but the year before I was I was there for the show to Omano's ex-Abor Jr. Mash I Jeremy my partner and speaking of strong style was there for town of Hoshis retirement.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I think you got the better end of the deal But I still had a lot of fun.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I went to all Japan.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I went to start them.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I went so I saw seven shows

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I was there among it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I just all the companies run Tokyo that week.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's similar to WrestleMania weekend here when you have the main thing in the big stadium.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And then in venues all around town, all the other companies come in because people like me show them from America and the people come in from all over Japan as well.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So everyone was running Tokyo that week and I saw as much of it as I possibly could.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I saw

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[SPEAKER_03]: What's it all?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, all Japan's start them and TJPW and then three new Japan shows because I was a two night they had Russell Dynastee the next night and then New Year's Dash.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I was among my tribe.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I was in Hawkehavan.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It was it was great to to hang out and and you really do meet a lot of people you just see how often in our lives do we meet people who are as into this as we are.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Among our friend groups, we're the ones that are the ones that are the experts on it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We've watched, we have our 10,000 hours in and everyone else is kind of, oh, yeah, I kind of, I watch wrestling and I was a kid, you know, okay.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Go to Wrestle Kingdom weekend or Wrestlemania weekend and everybody knows everything that you're talking about.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of refreshing.

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[SPEAKER_02]: That is so great.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going with three other people to dynamite tomorrow night.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I would say one of the four.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So one of the other three has a lot of experience.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He is in his early 50s.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I believe 52ish.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And he's he's been watching wrestling since the late 70s.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He could.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and he even said this is his exact words are I really don't like 26 pro wrestling right now.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I go back and watch.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I've do a little the butcher.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I go back and watch stuff from the 80s and mid-South and that just lights my world of fire.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I feel for him.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I feel for him.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I do the same thing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I started in 83.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I started in 83 when I was eight.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I can relate to that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes though, it's healthy to go back and watch the stuff you fell in love with.

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[SPEAKER_03]: When the current product isn't making you happy, it's easy to get bogged down in the negatives and the stuff you don't like and what's called, unquote, wrong with it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I always tell people if they're feeling burned out on wrestling and just not enjoying it,

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[SPEAKER_03]: but you still want to see some wrestling they like.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Don't be afraid to go back to what you found love within the first place because it probably holds up more than you think it would.

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[SPEAKER_03]: If you go back and watch that stuff on YouTube and think so, I think he does the right thing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Go back and watch them at Dula, watch them much and stuff from the early 80s, late 70s because you'll

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[SPEAKER_03]: remember the feeling of catching it for the first time and then you watch it with a little more knowledge of it now and you you learn what's going to happen to these guys later and it puts it in a different context but you still have that feeling of being a little kid watching wrestling.

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[SPEAKER_02]: This is really setting the stage for what we're about to talk about.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I got one more question because I've just disassembling into my mind since you saw an algebra pan show last year what were your thoughts on the presentation of current day algebra

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[SPEAKER_03]: Current day older pan has some terrific workers, one of the best in the world, can't tell me a hara, a rising star in Uma Anzai who's going to be a top level guy.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And they have a tag team that's very charismatic, the site, over others, they get over.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They don't have a ton of depth.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And the thing is, Noah is owned by a cyber fight, which is a large company, bigger than Bushy Road, even the company that owns New Japan.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And it's tough for him sometimes.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They have some good foreign guys.

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[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of XNXT guys remember Odyssey Jones and they have Zion Quinn.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He's in all Japan now.

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[SPEAKER_03]: If you remember some of those guys from NXT and they're doing well, it's

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a more narrow roster, so when they have injuries, it hurts them more.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They just don't have the death and the budget.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But the current presentation is very straightforward, and it's similar, ish, to what Bobo was doing back in the day, and that there aren't really baby faces and heels.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There are alliances, but you sort of pick your group.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's your favorite.

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[SPEAKER_03]: More than anybody cheats or puts feet on the ropes or interferes or anything like that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There's a little bit of that, but very little.

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[SPEAKER_03]: For the most part, you just kind of pick your favorites and go with them.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And the emphasis is on telling the stories in the ring.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And that is still the same.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I enjoy all Japan.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I have their streaming service.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I watch it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's a.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the issue with them is again, it they just don't have the death.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, whereas up and down, when New Japan is really clicking, and frankly, as somebody who watched a lot of, all of New Japan, I'm a completeist, it hasn't been clicking all that much lately, but, you know, you can get a show like Dominion, Russell, King, then we're all over six matches of Marcherific, and all Japan, sometimes, before an admission, can be a little on the

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[SPEAKER_03]: And they had a young talent who was unfortunately killed in a traffic tragic accident last year.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So that was that was one that was sad the the company bus, the ring bus or the bus to treat the transport of the wrestlers and the transport of the ring hit him and he ended up dying of his injuries, which was tragic.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So like they've had some obstacles to overcome this past year.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And

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[SPEAKER_03]: But I still like all Japan and, you know, Noah's trucking along as best to can with the fairly old roster, frankly.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But all of that kind of comes together in the match we're about to talking about because it's two guys who made their names in New Japan and then were the beginning of what was the golden era for pro wrestling Noah, the early years of Noah were pretty great stuff.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's like it's perfect.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, as most of you know, I've been hyping this for a couple of weeks.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The match we are gonna go over today took place March 1st of 2003.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Me too, Haramasawa versus Kentacobashi for the GHC Heavyweight Championship that's pro wrestling Noah's.

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[SPEAKER_02]: title and we're going to tie in a lot of things here early, give you some snippets and the question first and foremost, what was your introduction to the four pillars?

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[SPEAKER_03]: The introduction to four pillars for me came a tape trading when I was in college and I was in college, my friend Ron Whitworth, shout out to him, introduce me to the observer, whole new field of research opened up and I've been a wrestling nut for a long time.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I watched everything that I could get my eyes on, really.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I grew up in an area where it was basically WWF.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And if you had cable, you could see TBS and all that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But the observer kind of woke me up to all the things that we're going on.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I had the K-F-A wrestling magazines.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I was aware of some of the names from Japan to Henson.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They're just wasn't a place to see these guys.

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[SPEAKER_03]: When I started tape trading in college, there were compilations tapes that were floating around and there was a guy named Bob Barnett, I remember this, that you could buy compilation tapes of Japanese wrestling as they kind of came out.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So people would tape Japanese wrestling, Bob would kind of cut it all up, New Japan, all Japan, and put it together in a four hour compilation a month.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And you could get that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I would send away for those, and this was putting a check in the mail, sending it away, hoping he gets a gaseous and then a couple of weeks later he gets, so I would get tapes like six to eight weeks after they happened, but that seemed pretty current at the time.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That was in the middle of all of the rise of the four pillars.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I was in college from about 93 to 97.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And in that time, that was when Masawa, Kawada, Kobashi, really, and Tawa, all that rose to the top after Jumbo Serrita got sick and had to kind of move aside from the main events.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And it was like seeing something state of the art

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, drawing water out of a well, you know, it was, it was just so blue my doors off because American wrestling at the time WCW was struggling the NWO angle hadn't happened yet and they were having house shows with attendance in the hundreds WWF, you know, you're talking like the the the era when everybody had a part time job, you know, the wrestling garbage man the wrestling plumber the wrestling it was so kind of.

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[SPEAKER_03]: more for kids than it was for adults and it wasn't clicking.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's where ECW came from.

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[SPEAKER_03]: ECW was the punk rock of pro wrestling and that had a cult following and smoking mountain was still around and all that and doing a more traditional version of pro wrestling and a territory.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But nationally, he was rough.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So then you would get this tape and you would see 10,000 people at Simo Hall for New Japan, which had Muto and Chono and Hashimoto and there are three Musketeers and then the four pillars for all Japan in front of 16,000 people of Boticon Hall going nuts.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And all Japan women for that matter, goodness.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Azjikong, Manami Toyota and Akira Hokido,

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[SPEAKER_03]: these tapes were the cure, the cure of what ale me.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Again, it helped me to continue loving pro wrestling when what I was seeing on national TV was not real great, you know, no Steve Austin and in stone cold Steve Austin, yeah, he was still stunning Steve Austin and, you know, losing to pretty weak guys until because they just didn't know what they had and WWF was rough so

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[SPEAKER_03]: Seeing these guys just changed my view of pro wrestling.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a love pro wrestling again, watching the Japanese stuff and been into it ever since.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't blame you.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I like the KFA magazine you mentioned.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I was, you'd see the names all the time.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And you would see them and the PWF, PWF 500s were come out.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They would be in the top 10, 15, 20, and like, okay, who are these guys?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Why?

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[SPEAKER_02]: How can I get access to them?

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I was in my teens and wasn't quite into the tape trading PCF, but,

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[SPEAKER_02]: You always had respect for them if you truly knew about and wanted to know about professional wrestling.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, Masawa Kobashi, Tawa, and Kawada are where household names in my mind.

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[SPEAKER_02]: My question to follow up is, and this, I mean, could come down later in the line too, but of the four pillars, who is your personal favorite?

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[SPEAKER_03]: uh... midst of her muscle is my personal favorite in fact uh... if it's been a video thing this is how much i'm into this on the wall behind me i'm a bad weatherman but uh... that's it's a hermosa was autograph i bought i bought that it too to work on uh... that's standhancing and giant bobba right there in that one and then that this one over here nope this way

17:35.427 --> 17:36.408
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't even do this.

17:36.949 --> 17:37.630
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a cup.

17:37.650 --> 17:38.852
[SPEAKER_03]: Kenta Kobashi right there.

17:39.393 --> 17:39.733
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

17:40.014 --> 17:41.536
[SPEAKER_03]: And the other thing is this ticket.

17:42.337 --> 17:47.224
[SPEAKER_03]: And this little frame right here is from the very first Noah show in history about that of Tito Lookantu.

17:47.605 --> 17:49.447
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's a stub from the very first Noah show.

17:50.329 --> 17:52.612
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that's how much I love this stuff.

17:52.672 --> 17:54.234
[SPEAKER_03]: I went to Tito Lookantu got their autographs.

17:54.274 --> 18:01.705
[SPEAKER_03]: But Masawa in that green and silver, it's so interesting because he's not particularly expressive.

18:01.904 --> 18:02.566
[SPEAKER_03]: in his face.

18:02.706 --> 18:03.809
[SPEAKER_03]: He's very reserved.

18:04.691 --> 18:07.699
[SPEAKER_03]: And yet he's one of the most charismatic wrestlers I think I've ever seen.

18:07.839 --> 18:12.832
[SPEAKER_03]: There's something about the way he moves the way he's suddenly quick.

18:12.852 --> 18:14.737
[SPEAKER_03]: He can go from zero to 60 very fast.

18:15.198 --> 18:17.263
[SPEAKER_03]: He just kind of explodes into people.

18:17.243 --> 18:28.513
[SPEAKER_03]: and his sense of timing is on the level of guys you hear about Sean Michaels and Rick Flare having perfect timing, knowing exactly when to do the right thing and their matches and it's true.

18:29.695 --> 18:40.505
[SPEAKER_03]: Koba Masaw was absolutely one of those co-bushers, almost as good, but it was just something captivating about Mr. Haram Masaw, he was the second tiger mask, so he could fly a little bit.

18:40.585 --> 18:46.390
[SPEAKER_03]: By the time he gets to the top, main event of all Japan, he bolted up a little bit,

18:46.555 --> 18:52.808
[SPEAKER_03]: But his technical wrestling was outstanding, his high spot wrestling was incredible.

18:52.828 --> 19:02.047
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we're going to talk about these suplexes and the drops and everything else that, well, led to some pretty rough times down the road.

19:02.107 --> 19:03.450
[SPEAKER_03]: But in the moment,

19:04.190 --> 19:05.151
[SPEAKER_03]: It was thrilling.

19:05.811 --> 19:08.414
[SPEAKER_03]: And his matches just had an aura about them.

19:08.514 --> 19:11.496
[SPEAKER_03]: His rivalry with Kawada was unparalleled at the time.

19:12.237 --> 19:15.059
[SPEAKER_03]: His work with Kobashi is a tag team, incredible.

19:15.219 --> 19:17.681
[SPEAKER_03]: And then when they were against each other, even better.

19:18.682 --> 19:20.524
[SPEAKER_03]: And he brought Junakiyama along.

19:20.544 --> 19:23.706
[SPEAKER_03]: So of the four, it was always Masala for me.

19:24.127 --> 19:27.449
[SPEAKER_03]: And Kobashi Kawada and Tauai love him.

19:27.469 --> 19:32.113
[SPEAKER_03]: But he was always, so he was always one and the rest were one B.C.

19:32.133 --> 19:34.095
[SPEAKER_03]: and D to me.

19:34.075 --> 19:35.617
[SPEAKER_03]: tough, but I love myself.

19:36.799 --> 19:37.820
[SPEAKER_02]: Masala's my guy, too.

19:38.240 --> 19:40.583
[SPEAKER_02]: I got to see him live in 1986.

19:40.724 --> 19:42.546
[SPEAKER_02]: I never did.

19:42.806 --> 19:44.208
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he was at the super doll.

19:44.228 --> 19:46.651
[SPEAKER_03]: He was at the super doll in the metronome.

19:46.691 --> 19:47.973
[SPEAKER_03]: He was at for the AWA.

19:48.033 --> 19:49.275
[SPEAKER_03]: He and Boba came in, didn't they?

19:49.635 --> 19:50.156
[SPEAKER_02]: They did.

19:50.637 --> 19:51.317
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he's Tiger Mask.

19:51.357 --> 19:52.339
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes, yes.

19:52.359 --> 19:52.459
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

19:52.960 --> 19:56.404
[SPEAKER_02]: It's sad who we wrestled unfortunately, buck zoom off.

19:56.384 --> 20:00.508
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, you know, can't win them all less said the better.

20:01.188 --> 20:23.809
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, but at the time I mean I look back at it now I go I got to see Mitsuharu Missala live and just does a five-year-old at that point just going and then didn't having no idea who he was and looking back at it now Just the true appreciation of it, too and you go back through Missala's career because he started as a junior It's like way into this and this the parallels with Missala and Kobashi are kind of frightening

20:23.789 --> 20:39.368
[SPEAKER_02]: uh, despite of the fact that five years apart, both of them grew up in single parent homes, which was, yeah, mind boggling to me, and then just a finding professional wrestling at a teen age when both of them were pretty athletically inclined.

20:39.348 --> 20:43.192
[SPEAKER_02]: and they were discovered as well by Giant Baba, both of them I believe.

20:43.232 --> 20:46.916
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, Masala was trained by Dory Funk Jr. Baba and the likes.

20:47.397 --> 20:49.359
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you recall who Kobashi was trained by?

20:50.040 --> 20:51.742
[SPEAKER_03]: Kobashi did some with those guys.

20:51.842 --> 20:54.865
[SPEAKER_03]: Masala Fucci was a big influence on Kobashi's training as well.

20:55.146 --> 20:57.528
[SPEAKER_03]: He was one of the other statesman there in all Japan.

20:58.009 --> 20:58.509
[SPEAKER_03]: Great work.

20:59.230 --> 21:01.693
[SPEAKER_03]: And he helped train Kobashi a lot.

21:01.673 --> 21:04.657
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it is, those parallels are you're absolutely right.

21:04.677 --> 21:10.125
[SPEAKER_03]: There are also some differences, of course, you know, Masawa was a good, really good, high school wrestler.

21:10.145 --> 21:14.671
[SPEAKER_03]: So, Stosciacca, a lot of they went to the same high school the idea that a high school from Newspotta's got.

21:15.032 --> 21:15.472
[SPEAKER_03]: It's crazy.

21:15.492 --> 21:16.313
[SPEAKER_03]: They're about a year apart.

21:17.034 --> 21:19.598
[SPEAKER_03]: Kobashi though was like working in a factory.

21:19.578 --> 21:28.977
[SPEAKER_03]: and was rejected multiple times, whereas Masawa and Kawada were had a smoother ride into the dojo.

21:29.017 --> 21:35.370
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, getting into the dojo was hard being in the dojo's even harder, but Kawashi had to really work for it.

21:35.390 --> 21:38.937
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a story about Kawashi trying to get with that with

21:38.917 --> 21:55.542
[SPEAKER_03]: old Japan and Matoko Baba, Baba's wife, who was around the company with Baba, who's true mom and pop operation in that sense, just said, yeah, I mean, yeah, he's lifted some weights, but he's not, you know, he's not the athletes that

21:56.230 --> 22:01.255
[SPEAKER_03]: uh, missile on Kawatawa, uh, you know, he comes from this poor area.

22:01.315 --> 22:11.185
[SPEAKER_03]: He's working at a fact, nah, you know, and I've heard a couple of different stories, but most of them revolve around them telling Kobashi to get to an impossible show.

22:12.146 --> 22:16.411
[SPEAKER_03]: If he wants to learn anything, you know, just like, oh, show up tomorrow at noon.

22:16.471 --> 22:24.499
[SPEAKER_03]: We're having a show in who knows where Japan impossible

22:24.884 --> 22:30.477
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and he turns up and they're just like, well, he wants it, you know, put him in the ring, and then they got a look at him in the knowledge.

22:30.517 --> 22:31.138
[SPEAKER_03]: He's good looking.

22:31.198 --> 22:32.662
[SPEAKER_03]: He's athletic.

22:32.682 --> 22:34.546
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got a bodybuilders physique.

22:34.606 --> 22:36.170
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we should do something with the guy.

22:36.571 --> 22:37.473
[SPEAKER_03]: He's hungry as hell.

22:38.475 --> 22:40.580
[SPEAKER_03]: So he got himself in that way, but you're right.

22:41.101 --> 22:43.787
[SPEAKER_03]: He and Masawa coming up from.

22:44.746 --> 22:52.375
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, that's not an easy upbringing anywhere, but a single family, a single parent household in Japan, really rough and fairly rare at the time.

22:52.716 --> 22:57.301
[SPEAKER_03]: And for them to kind of power through all that and get to all Japan, it's impressive.

22:57.321 --> 22:59.143
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I can't imagine that at all.

22:59.504 --> 23:01.346
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to go back to Masawa.

23:01.506 --> 23:06.552
[SPEAKER_02]: Like after he left the juniors or was promoted, Masks was taken off.

23:07.409 --> 23:10.113
[SPEAKER_02]: I think what was cool was who he wrestled in the States.

23:10.273 --> 23:12.637
[SPEAKER_02]: He wrestled Kurt Hedding, A.W.A.

23:12.657 --> 23:15.260
[SPEAKER_02]: Champion, I believe at the time, Rick Flair.

23:16.041 --> 23:20.408
[SPEAKER_02]: He's wrestled Brett Hart, which I heard the match isn't that good on board.

23:20.428 --> 23:20.888
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not.

23:21.129 --> 23:23.212
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a 20-minute draw and they just didn't click.

23:23.372 --> 23:27.578
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not sure those are probably my one and two favorite wrestlers of all time.

23:27.558 --> 23:33.457
[SPEAKER_03]: You can throw in dynamite kid in there and, you know, a few others, but I was stunned when I saw it.

23:33.497 --> 23:35.182
[SPEAKER_03]: I've seen that mash and it doesn't click.

23:35.624 --> 23:38.513
[SPEAKER_03]: It seems like it's absolutely can't miss, but it missed.

23:39.067 --> 23:40.188
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's so unfortunate.

23:40.288 --> 23:44.133
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the one that I just found out about a couple of days ago and I don't know if I could dig this up.

23:44.633 --> 23:47.517
[SPEAKER_02]: He wrestled Ricky Steamboat when he was in the U.A.

23:47.957 --> 23:48.137
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

23:48.177 --> 23:48.538
[SPEAKER_03]: He did.

23:48.758 --> 23:51.241
[SPEAKER_03]: And in two to O'Con, I mentioned that store.

23:51.321 --> 23:54.645
[SPEAKER_03]: They actually sell replicas of the mask he wore in that match.

23:55.085 --> 23:55.846
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not the mask.

23:55.986 --> 23:56.447
[SPEAKER_03]: I asked.

23:56.887 --> 23:57.508
[SPEAKER_03]: I was going to buy it.

23:57.528 --> 23:59.270
[SPEAKER_03]: I ended up buying this boochy mask right here instead.

23:59.290 --> 24:07.960
[SPEAKER_03]: But that was a big deal that he wrestled Steamboat and talked about two of the best

24:08.328 --> 24:11.632
[SPEAKER_02]: And it sounded like that one actually had some good reviews on the match.

24:11.973 --> 24:12.634
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was good.

24:12.654 --> 24:13.755
[SPEAKER_02]: That one was good one.

24:13.775 --> 24:14.856
[SPEAKER_02]: Gosh, Ricky steamboat.

24:14.896 --> 24:16.238
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, miss miss him too.

24:16.479 --> 24:20.464
[SPEAKER_02]: Dearly, he was a tremendous performer in those days too.

24:21.044 --> 24:21.145
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

24:21.165 --> 24:32.659
[SPEAKER_02]: So with the with masala then and I think talking about kind of that transition period in the early 90s when 10 room in jambles brutal or up top.

24:32.679 --> 24:35.483
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you mentioned jambles brutal going through some health issues.

24:35.463 --> 24:47.564
[SPEAKER_02]: The timing was perfect for these four guys, and Masala ended up being the chosen one in the early stages, and I think it's been proven correctly that they made that right choice, but how often do you strike gold like this?

24:47.644 --> 24:54.015
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I could like the WWF, or WWF, I felt did with Orton, Sina, Patista, Shelton, Benjamin.

24:54.816 --> 24:59.344
[SPEAKER_02]: I failed to a lesser extent, but like how often is it's a

24:59.645 --> 25:00.606
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, not often.

25:00.746 --> 25:06.654
[SPEAKER_03]: And we mentioned Saruta, but Junituro Tenru was a huge star for Al Jepan for a very long time.

25:07.315 --> 25:14.424
[SPEAKER_03]: And he and Ricky Choshu, when he was in Al Jepan for a few years, had a great feud.

25:15.545 --> 25:20.772
[SPEAKER_03]: The Saruta and Tenru rivalry more than a feud always drew.

25:21.673 --> 25:24.336
[SPEAKER_03]: He was Al Jepan was not on the rocks.

25:24.697 --> 25:27.120
[SPEAKER_03]: They were doing well.

25:27.455 --> 25:39.686
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a guy who was very, very rich, and wanted to start a wrestling company, and he started a wrestling company out of nowhere called SWS, and he convinced the root of, or not so root of, he convinced 10 root to leave.

25:40.407 --> 25:41.788
[SPEAKER_03]: And be the number one guy.

25:41.808 --> 25:45.071
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to share the spotlight with so rooter, or anybody else with that matter.

25:45.091 --> 25:46.372
[SPEAKER_03]: You are the top guy for me.

25:46.733 --> 25:47.113
[SPEAKER_03]: And he left.

25:48.094 --> 25:54.880
[SPEAKER_03]: And took several members of his faction along with him, saying, hey, we're all going to go over here and be the top dogs.

25:55.315 --> 26:08.929
[SPEAKER_03]: and between, and that left a gaping hole in toward the top of the cards, which they filled with Masawa Masawa did a few with seruda that was pretty scintillating and that he brought Kawata and Kawashi up as part of that.

26:08.969 --> 26:13.674
[SPEAKER_03]: Tawa was actually the young guy on the seruda side back then, so that was their early clashes.

26:14.195 --> 26:22.403
[SPEAKER_03]: The idea you're right, that they probably would have risen to the top anyway on pure talent.

26:23.243 --> 26:42.371
[SPEAKER_03]: It was pretty amazing that the clouds kind of cleared out for them because Saruta and Tenru were not doing poorly and probably would have stayed on top for a few more years before age Totally caught up to them and then things might have ended up very differently.

26:43.112 --> 26:46.057
[SPEAKER_03]: But as it turns out, just as these guys were hitting their prime.

26:47.018 --> 26:48.981
[SPEAKER_03]: The spots up at the top of the card open.

26:51.323 --> 26:54.270
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and Masala defeated Serrut in 90.

26:54.290 --> 26:58.800
[SPEAKER_02]: And so Triple Crown going from there.

26:59.221 --> 27:05.957
[SPEAKER_03]: The first time since the very first Buddha-Con Hall show that anybody won their first Buddha-Con Hall made a bet.

27:06.089 --> 27:11.274
[SPEAKER_03]: Because the very first, the very first Al-Japan Budakon Hall made event was won by Baba, no surprise there.

27:11.835 --> 27:13.437
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was the second one and the third one.

27:14.057 --> 27:23.948
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it was not until Mitsuhara Masawa that somebody came up and the very first singles main event at Budakon Hall they wanted.

27:23.968 --> 27:26.690
[SPEAKER_03]: Very first time since the very first show.

27:27.311 --> 27:30.114
[SPEAKER_03]: So that was a shock and a big deal.

27:30.154 --> 27:32.957
[SPEAKER_03]: If you watch that match, when he gets that pin,

27:33.207 --> 27:42.199
[SPEAKER_03]: It looks, the crowd reacts like their team just won the World Series and I use that term because Japanese baseball is the biggest sport there.

27:42.800 --> 27:59.443
[SPEAKER_03]: That match too, absolutely electrifying because everyone's sort of expected Missawa to wrestle well but fall to the established guy at the end because everyone does in their first Bota-Con main event that getting the Bota-Con Hall main event is the achievement at first.

27:59.904 --> 28:01.746
[SPEAKER_03]: Then you get your first win later.

28:01.996 --> 28:05.841
[SPEAKER_03]: And instead Boba went with the hot hand and the place just blew up.

28:05.861 --> 28:07.784
[SPEAKER_03]: It's one of the most emotional scenes you'll see.

28:08.825 --> 28:10.287
[SPEAKER_02]: Gosh, yeah, that's something off the road.

28:10.307 --> 28:11.949
[SPEAKER_02]: Watch tonight to think before I go to sleep.

28:11.969 --> 28:12.890
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a great one, too.

28:12.991 --> 28:13.912
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to be disappointed.

28:14.553 --> 28:16.175
[SPEAKER_02]: Easy one to find for sure.

28:16.355 --> 28:17.937
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's all over the place.

28:17.957 --> 28:22.383
[SPEAKER_02]: So Miss Alek Golden Boy, I mean, I mean, we all know about his Kawata match in June of 1994.

28:22.563 --> 28:24.826
[SPEAKER_02]: The rivalry there in just how impressive that was.

28:24.906 --> 28:26.328
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's go to Kenta Kobashi.

28:26.388 --> 28:29.893
[SPEAKER_02]: I think this is a stat that I always talk about.

28:30.278 --> 28:32.960
[SPEAKER_02]: He lost anywhere, meaning depending on the record books you see.

28:33.441 --> 28:35.723
[SPEAKER_02]: Either his first 59 to 62 matches.

28:37.224 --> 28:39.366
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was Baba.

28:41.168 --> 28:43.249
[SPEAKER_03]: We're used to seeing young lions lose now.

28:43.910 --> 28:44.230
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

28:44.250 --> 28:46.352
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was a little bit different back then.

28:46.412 --> 28:49.715
[SPEAKER_03]: They didn't just job the guys like crazy for a while.

28:49.755 --> 28:53.398
[SPEAKER_03]: And the fans understand the young lion process and they don't hold it against them and all that stuff.

28:53.899 --> 28:56.141
[SPEAKER_03]: But they were telling a different story with Kobashi.

28:57.082 --> 28:58.783
[SPEAKER_03]: He always fought valiantly.

28:59.742 --> 29:02.285
[SPEAKER_03]: We talked about Masala not being particularly expressive.

29:02.305 --> 29:03.887
[SPEAKER_03]: Kobashi is expressive as hell.

29:04.407 --> 29:17.363
[SPEAKER_03]: His face will tell you every single thing that person is that man is feeling in that moment, whether it's agony, hope, it's all in his eyes, it's all in his mouth, he just radiates it.

29:17.443 --> 29:18.384
[SPEAKER_03]: And they knew that.

29:19.025 --> 29:23.109
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they just decided to make it the slowest burn ever.

29:23.390 --> 29:29.597
[SPEAKER_03]: And he always came that close and then not quite

29:30.657 --> 29:34.643
[SPEAKER_03]: over and over again and yet the people never gave up on them because they were

29:35.197 --> 30:02.267
[SPEAKER_03]: so convinced that he was good and he was and Baba knew that he was good and so they were just saving it for the right moment and yeah they just told the story that this guy will never quit telling the fans that this kid will never give up and it works that's a that's a risky move you somebody drops 63 straight matches you really run or however many it was you write it's all over the place but

30:02.247 --> 30:08.377
[SPEAKER_03]: you run the risk of people kind of saying, well, yeah, let's not get too into this because he always just loses.

30:08.397 --> 30:09.799
[SPEAKER_03]: Kobashi was able to carry him along.

30:10.140 --> 30:14.887
[SPEAKER_03]: He always did something to give him hope that, oh, maybe this is the one that all is happening.

30:14.907 --> 30:17.812
[SPEAKER_03]: And yet when finally did, they were all over him.

30:17.832 --> 30:26.466
[SPEAKER_03]: And when he won, there are tears in the eyes and, you know, they're throwing babies in the air and it's

30:27.982 --> 30:29.585
[SPEAKER_02]: Just, yeah, that's unbelievable.

30:29.625 --> 30:37.758
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know these days, like, if there is a certain performer out there that could kind of pull that off, just who's all a whole bunch and a row and people just write them out.

30:37.778 --> 30:42.727
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially in 2026 with the advantage of the internet, every day.

30:42.747 --> 30:49.178
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I would say that the fans in each individual town weren't aware that he was Owen 45 or anything like that.

30:49.198 --> 30:51.762
[SPEAKER_03]: They had just seen him several times.

30:51.742 --> 31:19.960
[SPEAKER_03]: and he hadn't quite gotten the win and you know they I don't think they didn't watch every match like right now if you're in a Japan fan you see every loss these young lions get and that wasn't the case back then so maybe even though they were kind of aware that he hadn't won yet maybe they had only seen a few times and each time he was getting a little closer so that hope was there I think you're right and in today's time where you can see everything and every match I do think that eventually people were just kind of

31:20.328 --> 31:22.732
[SPEAKER_03]: burn out on it, but not that then.

31:24.255 --> 31:44.192
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's yeah, it's different times and I think we'll go over the accolades right now to for both of these guys with Masawa being a five time triple crown champion, also a three time GHE Heavyweight Champion, whereas Kobashi was a three time triple crown champion

31:44.425 --> 31:45.467
[SPEAKER_02]: what we're going to get into.

31:46.048 --> 31:53.279
[SPEAKER_02]: The longest reign in the history of Pro Wrestling Noah unless that's been eclipsed in the last handful of years 735 days.

31:53.299 --> 31:56.384
[SPEAKER_02]: So at that time, just unprecedented.

31:57.565 --> 31:58.747
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I bet it.

31:58.847 --> 32:00.430
[SPEAKER_03]: I bet it has been eclipsed.

32:00.470 --> 32:06.640
[SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't put the house on it, but I don't recall a champion holding a bat on in, in Noah in the last few years.

32:06.680 --> 32:08.863
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think it's probably still his.

32:09.232 --> 32:13.257
[SPEAKER_02]: And you mentioned at the top that these guys were tag team partners as well.

32:13.317 --> 32:14.218
[SPEAKER_02]: I will point in time.

32:14.378 --> 32:16.841
[SPEAKER_02]: Kawada and Masawa I believe were tag team partners first.

32:17.462 --> 32:20.005
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, and then they broke off.

32:21.026 --> 32:22.849
[SPEAKER_02]: Kawashi, Masawa were a tag team.

32:22.889 --> 32:25.572
[SPEAKER_02]: But what's crazy, I think, is the chemistry between these two.

32:25.912 --> 32:26.733
[SPEAKER_02]: Masawa and Kawashi.

32:26.753 --> 32:30.418
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Masawa and Kawada, you could argue that that mean that feud is probably better.

32:30.918 --> 32:36.285
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think from a match catalog perspective, I think it just depends on apples and orders to each person.

32:36.265 --> 32:49.704
[SPEAKER_02]: There were at the time before this match happened, there were 16 singles matches, Masawa won 12 of them, one draw, and then three Kobashi victories, so Masawa obviously being the top guy at that time.

32:50.265 --> 33:00.619
[SPEAKER_02]: And here's the thing, before we hit the 2003 match, these guys had back to back years of the wrestling or the wrestling of the Renewsletter match of the year.

33:00.599 --> 33:15.570
[SPEAKER_02]: Halloween of 98 and then June 11th of 1999 so the chemistry obviously is undeniable between these two and do you have any recollection of any of those matches before we hit 2003 and we're going to talk about no in between as well.

33:15.888 --> 33:16.830
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I do.

33:17.370 --> 33:23.500
[SPEAKER_03]: What I recall about that is, we mentioned, Masawa teamed with Kowata for a while and then they split up.

33:23.520 --> 33:27.447
[SPEAKER_03]: And they don't, our all Japan, excuse me, didn't do turns.

33:27.827 --> 33:29.410
[SPEAKER_03]: One of them didn't backstab the other.

33:29.450 --> 33:32.214
[SPEAKER_03]: They just went their separate ways, so I'm speaking.

33:32.234 --> 33:33.897
[SPEAKER_03]: And then develop that.

33:33.877 --> 33:36.401
[SPEAKER_03]: incredible rivalry with Masawa and Kawada.

33:37.182 --> 33:42.049
[SPEAKER_03]: While he was feuding with Kawada, he was rivalry with Kawada.

33:42.069 --> 33:49.440
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, there weren't sneak attacks and stuff like that, but Kobashi was teeming with Masawa during that time, against mostly Kawada and Tawa.

33:50.201 --> 33:57.572
[SPEAKER_03]: After that sort of ran its course, they wanted to make the big rivalry Kobashi and Kawada, so they put Masawa

33:57.653 --> 34:06.206
[SPEAKER_03]: So over and over again, Masawa ends up with these absolute brilliant talents to work both with and then against.

34:06.767 --> 34:14.138
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I do remember those because you would see Kabashi working with other guys against Masawa and Akiyama.

34:14.558 --> 34:22.530
[SPEAKER_03]: And then they would come together for these singles matches and they had the champion carnival every year, which was their tournament, you know, the G1.

34:22.510 --> 34:28.702
[SPEAKER_03]: of all Japan, although back in the day, you would have said that the G1 was the champion carnival in New Japan.

34:28.722 --> 34:38.841
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it's just these rivalries would go from tag team partners to rivals and then when they would meet in the ring, I do remember those matches.

34:38.901 --> 34:43.911
[SPEAKER_03]: The triple crown was so prestigious and it was defended so rarely.

34:43.891 --> 34:48.177
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, only a handful of defenses a year, every single one of them is special.

34:48.197 --> 34:51.002
[SPEAKER_03]: And I talked about those trait-tating, trait-trating days.

34:51.943 --> 34:58.553
[SPEAKER_03]: When you got a triple crown title defense on a tape, that was a big, I used to have friends that would come to my apartment to watch those.

34:58.573 --> 35:02.259
[SPEAKER_03]: When I would finally get them on on grainy VHS, I joked before that.

35:02.599 --> 35:12.514
[SPEAKER_03]: It was 10 years before I knew the Kobashi was handsome because there was just this fuzzy face on in an in-orange tights and on my crappy VCR for a long time.

35:12.494 --> 35:19.549
[SPEAKER_03]: the matches between Kobashi and Masawa that's when the wrestling or the Japanese wrestling world would stop.

35:19.589 --> 35:27.145
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's when you would check the use net groups to see who won the night after and and all that you would just

35:28.542 --> 35:30.705
[SPEAKER_03]: You went out of your way to make sure you caught that one.

35:30.905 --> 35:32.667
[SPEAKER_03]: That one was one you weren't going to miss.

35:32.807 --> 35:35.070
[SPEAKER_03]: And every time they got in the ring, they had something special.

35:35.611 --> 35:37.733
[SPEAKER_03]: And they would build on whatever they had done before.

35:38.714 --> 35:42.799
[SPEAKER_03]: The finishing move from the match before would get countered into something special in the next one.

35:42.819 --> 35:46.624
[SPEAKER_03]: They were, your diligence was rewarded.

35:46.644 --> 35:52.211
[SPEAKER_03]: Everything a little thing you noticed was rewarded with something that they would come back to later.

35:52.751 --> 35:57.317
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was a storytelling that you weren't seeing much of.

35:58.175 --> 35:59.897
[SPEAKER_02]: That's when it makes it so compelling to me.

36:00.378 --> 36:05.324
[SPEAKER_02]: And you mentioned at the top, the stories told in the ring, an all-japan still continues to do it.

36:05.884 --> 36:15.156
[SPEAKER_02]: So Kobashi wins the last Champions Carnival for all Japan, or at least one before, and this is the perfect segue as well.

36:16.017 --> 36:17.939
[SPEAKER_02]: Giant Baba passes away in 1999.

36:19.081 --> 36:24.267
[SPEAKER_02]: And you mentioned Baba's wife earlier that she was given control of the company.

36:24.247 --> 36:31.235
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Mitsuhara Masawa apparently was having some disagreements and decided he was going to go start his own promotion.

36:31.736 --> 36:34.579
[SPEAKER_02]: And here we have Pro Wrestling Noah.

36:34.960 --> 36:38.284
[SPEAKER_02]: They defected in the, what would be the late spring of 2000.

36:38.304 --> 36:42.208
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I believe one of the first cars was an August of 2000.

36:42.468 --> 36:42.709
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

36:42.729 --> 36:49.697
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you kind of give me your your recollections of like the differences between Masawa and Baba's wife?

36:49.913 --> 36:52.477
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's the big question, isn't it?

36:52.497 --> 36:56.783
[SPEAKER_03]: Because throughout all of that, no one ever said what they were fighting about.

36:57.424 --> 37:02.732
[SPEAKER_03]: We never really learned because it's fascinating to me, first of all, the parallels.

37:04.114 --> 37:06.318
[SPEAKER_03]: Miss Iowa is one of the top guys in the company.

37:07.560 --> 37:11.145
[SPEAKER_03]: He is frustrated with the way the company is being run.

37:11.918 --> 37:15.522
[SPEAKER_03]: He goes to the television networks and says, I'm thinking about starting my own thing.

37:16.262 --> 37:20.647
[SPEAKER_03]: And the television network says, well, no one pays to see the owner, you're the star.

37:21.568 --> 37:25.832
[SPEAKER_03]: If you do, we'll go with you and we'll broadcast your TV.

37:27.293 --> 37:30.136
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly the same thing, Bob and Anoki did in 1972.

37:30.236 --> 37:34.801
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly the same thing, step for step.

37:35.341 --> 37:41.267
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that's how we got all Japan and New Japan in the first place, because they were all sick of the JWA.

37:41.753 --> 37:54.345
[SPEAKER_03]: But the differences, when they got to know it, the only thing that was really different than Al-Japan was that foreign wrestlers, not foreign wrestlers, excuse me, but wrestling other promotions sometimes went to know it.

37:54.832 --> 37:55.633
[SPEAKER_03]: And that didn't happen.

37:55.794 --> 37:58.478
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you were an inter-algebraan guy, you weren't.

37:58.498 --> 38:07.012
[SPEAKER_03]: And like the foreigners didn't really work for other Japanese companies at the die of Steve Williams and Terry Gordy Gary Allbright was a big one.

38:07.052 --> 38:12.080
[SPEAKER_03]: Johnny A's, but you know, those guys were in in Algebraan then and nowhere else.

38:13.362 --> 38:17.970
[SPEAKER_03]: When Noah started, they would have guests from other companies in sometimes.

38:18.878 --> 38:21.761
[SPEAKER_03]: Other than that, the presentation was pretty much just like all Japan.

38:21.901 --> 38:28.669
[SPEAKER_03]: So my question has always been, what did Matoko Baba want to do that Masawa didn't?

38:29.029 --> 38:29.730
[SPEAKER_03]: And we never found out.

38:31.452 --> 38:33.674
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's the great unanswered question for me.

38:33.715 --> 38:36.718
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like what direction did she want to take it?

38:37.138 --> 38:40.382
[SPEAKER_03]: Whereas he basically just said, I'm going to do all Japan.

38:41.083 --> 38:45.007
[SPEAKER_03]: The Baba Style All Japan, except I'm going to invite people from other companies once in a while.

38:45.347 --> 38:48.531
[SPEAKER_03]: And people have mentioned well they also elevated some juniors.

38:48.511 --> 38:56.739
[SPEAKER_03]: like Kenta and all that and that's an interesting point except those guys were so good and in the dojo like what the hell is we're gonna do.

38:57.540 --> 39:17.860
[SPEAKER_03]: You guys like you know Kenta he's can't miss so you know yeah so I think Kenta would have been elevated by all Japan anyway maybe made into a heavyweight or something like that but kind of Maro was there I'm trying to think oh Mar Fuji of course you know another great junior talent that was one thing but I think that was just circumstances were the best guys in the dojo were smaller guys

39:18.262 --> 39:29.629
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know the Masala sat there and just said, I'm going to create a junior division, or if that was just those of the three best guys in the dojo, I issue Mori was part of that later on, too, by the way.

39:30.972 --> 39:32.957
[SPEAKER_03]: By the way, his abs are as glorious in person.

39:33.238 --> 39:35.443
[SPEAKER_03]: And just as glorious, maybe more so.

39:35.423 --> 39:38.828
[SPEAKER_03]: Marvel, that guy's almost my age, not quite.

39:39.530 --> 39:43.877
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, Taiji, you're not quite as old as I am, but you just said, Oh, it's ridiculous.

39:44.297 --> 39:53.692
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, kind of Maro is Uncle kind of Maro, but those guys were great talents and everyone knew that that they were great talents in that dojo, they stood out.

39:54.334 --> 39:57.078
[SPEAKER_03]: So, was that it?

39:57.098 --> 39:59.322
[SPEAKER_03]: Was that he just wanted a junior to fit, but no one's ever said?

39:59.662 --> 40:01.465
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's just fascinating that they,

40:02.609 --> 40:05.161
[SPEAKER_03]: presented a product that was a lot like all Japan.

40:05.241 --> 40:06.647
[SPEAKER_03]: So what were they fighting over?

40:06.748 --> 40:08.114
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, never know, and we'll never know.

40:08.395 --> 40:09.480
[SPEAKER_03]: And both of them passed away.

40:10.557 --> 40:18.845
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's where I was going to go with this was I felt that the only difference was the junior division was highlighted a little bit more in the early onset stages.

40:19.205 --> 40:24.611
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, all Japan never really, I mean, they had smaller guys, but never really did a whole lot with them.

40:24.651 --> 40:36.582
[SPEAKER_03]: Certainly not compared to New Japan, which had the game changing junior heavyweight division where you got tiger mask and then black tiger,

40:36.865 --> 40:45.735
[SPEAKER_03]: Otani and, you know, some of the, the L samurai and some of those great great junior heavyweight forgotten sex Eddie Guerrero was the second black tiger.

40:45.815 --> 41:00.932
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that that was mind blowing stuff in in New Japan and Baba sort of just kind of seeded that territory to an Okhi and so that's that's what they do so that's probably the main difference but booking wise very similar

41:01.790 --> 41:12.857
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I was listening to a podcast a couple of days ago and actually and Eddie Kingston was a guest star on on this one and he Oh my gosh, yeah, he could rape about that for hours upon hours.

41:13.379 --> 41:18.752
[SPEAKER_02]: He said the biggest difference between New Japan and all Japan was this was what kind of Bob is preaching

41:18.732 --> 41:22.460
[SPEAKER_02]: is that all Japan wouldn't do any submissions.

41:22.540 --> 41:24.243
[SPEAKER_02]: That just wasn't part of King's Road.

41:24.263 --> 41:28.653
[SPEAKER_02]: It just made them made the talent feel inferior where his talent feel inferior.

41:28.733 --> 41:35.106
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas in New Japan, like Masa Chono, STF was a major, major finisher for him too.

41:35.387 --> 41:37.691
[SPEAKER_02]: So I found that pretty captivating.

41:37.711 --> 41:38.673
[SPEAKER_02]: It just interesting to me.

41:38.794 --> 41:39.475
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

41:39.961 --> 41:42.765
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm trying to think of a time when they really did a big submission.

41:42.785 --> 41:53.178
[SPEAKER_03]: Gary Albright would use it sometimes, and of course, you know, Kawada used the stretch plum, but I don't recall him getting a stopage or submission off of it.

41:53.218 --> 41:53.858
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, he mentioned it.

41:54.119 --> 41:55.260
[SPEAKER_03]: Huh, that's interesting.

41:55.280 --> 41:55.741
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

41:55.761 --> 42:02.730
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, New Japan, because Enoki was so into MMA before MMA was a thing, he was always into stuff like that.

42:02.750 --> 42:04.652
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, when they did the,

42:05.003 --> 42:16.119
[SPEAKER_03]: When they did the collisions between them and UWFI and UWF, and all that, they used a lot of Geigi Motto used a figure for it to be to know he could to Kata in the Tokyo dome.

42:17.041 --> 42:18.062
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the funny thing, isn't it?

42:18.283 --> 42:32.023
[SPEAKER_03]: We're talking about Al Japan in this run that they had with these four pillars, and they had some insane Tokyo sell-out streak where they sold out hundreds of shows in a row in Tokyo, and these Motokon Hall 16,000 people, they've been the number two company.

42:32.695 --> 42:37.589
[SPEAKER_03]: At the time, New Japan was running the Tokyo Dome three times a year, and almost filling it.

42:38.071 --> 42:45.793
[SPEAKER_03]: It was such a boom time for Japanese wrestling, but that was an interesting point about the submissions that Anoki always had that MMA mixed in there.

42:45.892 --> 42:50.017
[SPEAKER_03]: and guys would use a lot of submissions.

42:50.057 --> 42:56.125
[SPEAKER_03]: And I guess all Japan, once they went to the pinfall thing, because man, the double countouts in the 80s were torture.

42:56.886 --> 42:59.449
[SPEAKER_03]: In the big event, man, they protected the hell out of those guys.

42:59.510 --> 43:07.079
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you had two top guys in, it was almost certainly going to be a double countout finish type of thing where they wouldn't beat either one of them.

43:08.141 --> 43:12.086
[SPEAKER_03]: Once they got away from that, yeah, it was pinfall pinfall pinfall pinfall.

43:12.106 --> 43:13.047
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

43:13.853 --> 43:17.751
[SPEAKER_02]: and we covered in nokey invader at the beginning of the year and nokey wins that match by submission.

43:18.434 --> 43:18.916
[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.

43:18.936 --> 43:19.921
[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.

43:20.021 --> 43:23.577
[SPEAKER_03]: Say yeah, maybe that's just how they felt like they should differentiate themselves.

43:25.025 --> 43:25.766
[SPEAKER_02]: way to do it.

43:25.786 --> 43:30.834
[SPEAKER_02]: I suppose, I mean, that's a, yeah, big small difference there between the two companies.

43:31.335 --> 43:39.648
[SPEAKER_02]: With Noah now and right before we hit the match, just Masala ended up becoming the first champion in 2001.

43:40.650 --> 43:46.359
[SPEAKER_02]: There were a handful of other champions, but Masala was already a two-time champion by the time they rolled into this.

43:46.439 --> 43:50.425
[SPEAKER_02]: Now he is a beat up version of himself from all Japan.

43:50.405 --> 43:54.992
[SPEAKER_02]: Now here's the big one, Kenta Kobashi has now before this match.

43:56.214 --> 43:58.998
[SPEAKER_02]: He's had 12 knee surgeries.

43:59.459 --> 44:00.040
[SPEAKER_03]: Bloody hell.

44:00.340 --> 44:01.262
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know this 12.

44:01.282 --> 44:02.203
[SPEAKER_03]: 12.

44:02.283 --> 44:03.305
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know it was 12.

44:03.325 --> 44:04.366
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah.

44:05.548 --> 44:13.881
[SPEAKER_03]: Well we talked about this with the boom period starting in 93, 94, and Masawa a little bit earlier than that, but Kobashi really blossomed in 93ish.

44:14.283 --> 44:15.104
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, this is 2003.

44:15.144 --> 44:22.473
[SPEAKER_03]: These guys have worked one of the roughest styles anyone has ever seen that will get into once we start talking about the particulars of the match.

44:23.254 --> 44:30.003
[SPEAKER_03]: And they've been doing it for 10 or 15, and in Missile's case, 15 years, and he was he and Kawada were doing opening matches in the very early eighties.

44:31.084 --> 44:40.176
[SPEAKER_03]: And so a lot of miles on these bodies, a lot of impact, and these were not simple flat back bumps they're taking either.

44:40.676 --> 44:43.480
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's kind of amazing the made it as far as they did.

44:44.995 --> 44:48.338
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, look at the, again, back to Miss Alicawata in 94.

44:48.358 --> 44:55.144
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe it was, was it the introduction of the Tiger Driver 91, where he just dressed a lot on his head?

44:55.885 --> 45:01.430
[SPEAKER_03]: I just dropped and flat on his head and looked, looked for everybody that, one, he kind of botched the move.

45:02.331 --> 45:02.551
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

45:02.571 --> 45:07.896
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I first, the first time I saw it, I thought he just, they were so sweaty that he slipped and dropped the guy on his head.

45:07.936 --> 45:10.859
[SPEAKER_03]: No, that was the freaking move because he did it again later.

45:11.079 --> 45:13.922
[SPEAKER_03]: He were like, oh my god,

45:14.813 --> 45:15.554
[SPEAKER_03]: that was scary.

45:15.954 --> 45:23.623
[SPEAKER_03]: And then another time in the Tokyo dome with Kawada and Masawa, Masawa went to get out of the power bomb by turning it into a hurricane rana.

45:24.624 --> 45:31.792
[SPEAKER_03]: Kawada stops him so that Masawa was, he's got him Masawa by the waist and Masada is just, Masawa is just straight up and down.

45:32.273 --> 45:35.857
[SPEAKER_03]: So picture trying to do a hurricane rana and the guy just catches you.

45:36.077 --> 45:40.602
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't go into the

45:40.902 --> 45:43.226
[SPEAKER_03]: And just had this big spot right there.

45:43.246 --> 45:46.731
[SPEAKER_03]: They would plan spots where they're dropping each other on their head like that.

45:47.172 --> 45:50.317
[SPEAKER_03]: That was the first Tiger Driver 91, but it wasn't the last one.

45:50.958 --> 45:54.924
[SPEAKER_03]: And some people call the Tiger Driver 94, because that's the year it happened, but it was the 91.

45:55.104 --> 46:04.780
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, some antics, but yeah, so they were already putting those kind of bumps on each other 10 years earlier.

46:05.281 --> 46:08.766
[SPEAKER_03]: And the human body is not designed to withstand that.

46:09.370 --> 46:30.140
[SPEAKER_02]: No, absolutely vicious stuff in the mid 90s when, yeah, like you said, all Japan was at its absolute height and the plan, according to just history and what I've read, is that Masawa wanted to go with Kenza Kobashi very early on in Noah and all these injuries prevented him from doing it earlier.

46:30.560 --> 46:37.470
[SPEAKER_02]: And he admits, I think, close to a year, 2001 and 2002, he gets back.

46:37.450 --> 46:39.897
[SPEAKER_02]: and then he misses another four months with another injury.

46:40.338 --> 46:44.269
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have to wonder at this time, like can he withstand this punishment?

46:44.349 --> 46:48.962
[SPEAKER_02]: And there can he be the flag bear if we're going to have to worry about his injury history.

46:49.583 --> 46:52.127
[SPEAKER_03]: it's an interesting point and you think about it.

46:52.147 --> 46:58.616
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe Missail was point of view of it as President of the company is, if we don't do it now, we might never be able to do it with him.

46:59.457 --> 47:03.062
[SPEAKER_03]: And so going into this match, he's closest thing to healthy.

47:03.182 --> 47:08.049
[SPEAKER_03]: He probably got to after all that and just thought, well, let's strike while the iron's hot.

47:08.069 --> 47:17.903
[SPEAKER_03]: We do have Junaki Amacaman and he can carry the joint, but he might have just thought if I wait another six months to a year,

47:17.883 --> 47:23.994
[SPEAKER_03]: Kobashi might never be healthy enough to run with it for a while and you have to keep things fresh on top once in a while.

47:24.034 --> 47:26.779
[SPEAKER_03]: So you mentioned 700 plus days.

47:27.680 --> 47:31.487
[SPEAKER_03]: You can only do that for so long before you kind of run through every challenge or you have.

47:32.289 --> 47:38.760
[SPEAKER_03]: And my guess is they may have pulled the trigger on this just thinking that might be their only chance to do so with Kobashi.

47:40.225 --> 47:56.644
[SPEAKER_02]: picture that too, and he had to adapt his style a ton when he got back, because I recall the Kensikobashi doing moon salts and all of these other things, and he was taller or Kobashi taller.

47:56.724 --> 47:58.667
[SPEAKER_02]: I know Kobashi had a thicker frame.

47:58.987 --> 48:00.609
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Tawai was a little bit tall.

48:00.629 --> 48:01.871
[SPEAKER_03]: Tawai was a pretty tall dude.

48:02.351 --> 48:07.397
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think Tawai was a little bit taller in Kobashi, but not terribly.

48:08.288 --> 48:17.016
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, to me, and me, and this is maybe apples and oranges as well, Kobashi might have been the most athletic of the four Misawa's pot.

48:17.036 --> 48:17.437
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

48:17.577 --> 48:19.138
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just kind of a bunch of a two.

48:19.258 --> 48:20.039
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's a good question.

48:20.059 --> 48:21.100
[SPEAKER_03]: But his knees were bad.

48:21.160 --> 48:31.169
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I remember him having a heavy knee brace, and then the magic numbing spray, spraying that on him after matches, going back to when I was watching him in college.

48:31.229 --> 48:37.215
[SPEAKER_03]: So those those knees were rough early, and he was still doing the moon salts on him and everything else.

48:37.988 --> 48:44.003
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, unbelievable, which we have arrived, March 1st 2003.

48:44.985 --> 48:54.428
[SPEAKER_02]: We both talked about how, yeah, this definitely got our juices flowing, like I watched this yesterday afternoon and I almost wanted to go back and watch it again.

48:54.408 --> 48:56.371
[SPEAKER_02]: This thing lasted close.

48:56.391 --> 48:58.314
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it was 33 and a half minutes.

48:59.757 --> 48:59.857
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

48:59.877 --> 49:05.547
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, from the opening bell itself, they locked up, slowed it down and Kobashi misses a chop early on.

49:05.827 --> 49:10.054
[SPEAKER_02]: Goes for a back suplex Missawa counters with a crossbody for a two.

49:10.034 --> 49:17.046
[SPEAKER_02]: Nice slow pace to this with a series of hammer locks and a tie-up, I mean both go for a twisting arm drag series of reversals.

49:17.687 --> 49:21.633
[SPEAKER_02]: They're flashing back to stuff from the mid-90s when they were younger.

49:22.074 --> 49:25.900
[SPEAKER_02]: Misawa is 41 here I believe Kobashi's 36.

49:25.880 --> 49:33.872
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's almost like for one night they were able to turn back the clock again, is that kind of the vibe that you got throughout this match?

49:34.192 --> 49:35.033
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think so.

49:35.334 --> 49:39.420
[SPEAKER_03]: And I like that they started with a couple of fast sequences.

49:39.840 --> 49:52.258
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I say, miss the chopped out of that and they kind of stared at each other and waited for the crowd was into this from Go.

49:52.238 --> 50:01.476
[SPEAKER_03]: Then they did a couple of the things where it was a bit of a scramble and either one had the advantage and they would kind of come up in a neutral spot and kind of like their fists are cocked at each other and then they would kind of stop and start again.

50:01.496 --> 50:11.715
[SPEAKER_03]: And then once they started working they slow the pace down like you mentioned they knew they were going a half an hour and all Japan and Noah main events

50:12.421 --> 50:41.044
[SPEAKER_03]: always went over 20 you know that it was very very very rare that one went under 20 minutes the crowd kind of knew that you know that you would hear him kind of that 20 minute call that's when the crowd starts really coming up because the 20 minute call are like I might actually kind of know but before they were kind of going with the story so yeah they worked the hammer locks but they they kept it going it was never dull it was just no it was just kind

50:41.024 --> 50:44.493
[SPEAKER_03]: and they were sending messages with everything, but you're right.

50:44.513 --> 50:47.600
[SPEAKER_03]: They did slow things down a little bit because they knew they were going to go along.

50:48.783 --> 50:57.244
[SPEAKER_02]: And the one thing that I gathered because the two of you, the two guys know each other so well, is that Kobashi was going for the neck and Masala was going for the arm.

50:58.051 --> 50:58.452
[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.

50:58.552 --> 51:05.026
[SPEAKER_03]: They're going for each other's quote unquote weak points and weak points in storyline, but not the weakest part of their bodies.

51:05.066 --> 51:12.702
[SPEAKER_03]: Masawa didn't pound away at Kobashi's knees as a key, although, well, working Masawa's neck doesn't age well.

51:14.909 --> 51:15.129
[SPEAKER_02]: no.

51:16.632 --> 51:17.733
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to keep going here.

51:18.034 --> 51:20.317
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you mentioned it, which I completely forgot to.

51:20.678 --> 51:23.181
[SPEAKER_02]: The moment the bell rang, the crowd was going crazy.

51:24.043 --> 51:25.505
[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't happen too often.

51:25.805 --> 51:32.175
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we are, this was a 16,700 person crowd here for this Noah made event as well.

51:32.155 --> 51:39.012
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, and what was cool to me is that the crowd would trade chance for both men throughout this match.

51:40.496 --> 51:40.596
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

51:40.616 --> 51:43.985
[SPEAKER_02]: You said there's really no face, no heel line between the two.

51:44.025 --> 51:47.413
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they've just compelling stuff.

51:48.271 --> 51:50.695
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'll Japan did rivalries more than they did.

51:51.256 --> 51:52.197
[SPEAKER_03]: Good guys, bad guys.

51:52.337 --> 51:56.103
[SPEAKER_03]: So the fans would pick their favorite guy.

51:56.123 --> 51:58.947
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I'm a team Kobashi tonight.

51:59.027 --> 52:00.349
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm team Masawa tonight.

52:00.690 --> 52:05.357
[SPEAKER_03]: But it wasn't like they were, they didn't hate each other.

52:06.319 --> 52:14.651
[SPEAKER_03]: And even when Kobashi and Masawa were at really, really adding to her, Kawada and Masawa, in particular, adding each other's thoughts and things.

52:14.732 --> 52:15.713
[SPEAKER_03]: It was always,

52:16.874 --> 52:36.790
[SPEAKER_03]: a little bit respectful this is i'm not going to shake your hand too much i don't really you know i i i i have to beat you it's more of a i i have i have to beat you it's not that i want to put you out of wrestling it's not a personal issue in that sense so uh the fans just kind of picked with every they want and then after a while it felt like they were just rooting for whoever was selling

52:36.770 --> 52:47.489
[SPEAKER_03]: to come back and that's kind of how it felt a couple of times so that if some guy stayed down for any length of time, a co-bashi, a chant, or a me-sau-a chant would come up and sometimes it sounded like some of the same people.

52:49.272 --> 52:50.815
[SPEAKER_02]: That's which is made this so fun.

52:51.255 --> 52:51.716
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Lee.

52:52.277 --> 52:54.261
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're rooting for both guys.

52:54.761 --> 52:59.470
[SPEAKER_02]: The first high impact move of the match itself was Missawa.

53:00.532 --> 53:01.393
[SPEAKER_02]: And

53:01.373 --> 53:02.174
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you do here?

53:02.214 --> 53:06.500
[SPEAKER_02]: So he went up top or sorry, he scored with a back suit, Plexus Kobashi rolled out to the floor.

53:06.921 --> 53:10.025
[SPEAKER_02]: Then he goes up to the top, he hits a dive on to Kentus Chest.

53:10.045 --> 53:12.950
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where you mentioned if the crowd starts chanting for Kobashi.

53:13.470 --> 53:18.758
[SPEAKER_02]: Masawa gets back up and hits an apron sinton and knocks Kobashi to the floor.

53:18.738 --> 53:24.104
[SPEAKER_02]: Eventually, Masawa would hit a middle-rope splash as Kobashi was in the getting back in the ring for a two count.

53:24.124 --> 53:32.815
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, as I was talking about the arm work, Masawa with an arm breaker, and Kobashi holds his shoulder as he goes into the rope, he's continuing to work on the arm.

53:33.035 --> 53:35.758
[SPEAKER_02]: So, we're getting chaps for arms back and forth.

53:35.819 --> 53:40.124
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is again, while then the first probably seven minutes.

53:40.144 --> 53:42.306
[SPEAKER_02]: Just, good stuff so far.

53:42.767 --> 53:44.509
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you notice anything else in those opening minutes?

53:45.097 --> 54:05.552
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, we talked about it a little bit that they weren't, and they started off with a couple of quick things, but then they weren't in a hurry, pacing themselves, they've done this a lot, you know, between tag team main events and singles main events, they know how to work at 30 minute match, they know how long they're going, and so they're pacing themselves, but throwing in things that will matter later.

54:07.405 --> 54:08.988
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and then there's other things.

54:10.290 --> 54:18.663
[SPEAKER_02]: We get a forearm from Masawa knocking Kobashi to the ground, and big move here as Masawa hits the ropes, does a sin ton.

54:19.584 --> 54:26.275
[SPEAKER_02]: So he holds the ropes just kind of that whole flip, and he jumps out to Kobashi, who's near the guard rail.

54:26.255 --> 54:36.487
[SPEAKER_02]: And Masawa lands jaw first into the guardrail, probably broke his jaw, blood just spewing out of his mouth.

54:36.527 --> 54:43.695
[SPEAKER_02]: You can kind of see, just, I mean, this is the first huge match, or excuse me, first huge move of this match.

54:43.715 --> 54:49.462
[SPEAKER_02]: And right away, you're like, okay, we could be in for an epic battle between these two.

54:49.502 --> 54:53.967
[SPEAKER_02]: I just saw the cringe look on your face there, is that what you just played this afternoon when you watched it.

54:53.947 --> 55:00.658
[SPEAKER_03]: you could feel his face bounce off of that thing and the draw bounce off of that metal barricade right there.

55:00.678 --> 55:05.486
[SPEAKER_03]: He hit it very hard and I hope he just split his lip and played it up with that.

55:05.566 --> 55:07.829
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, you can easily break a draw into something like that.

55:07.849 --> 55:10.133
[SPEAKER_03]: He smoked that thing.

55:10.670 --> 55:12.772
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, big move here.

55:13.213 --> 55:20.020
[SPEAKER_02]: So with a mouth busted open, Kobashi takes advantage and hits a release German Suplex about a minute later in the ring.

55:20.501 --> 55:24.705
[SPEAKER_02]: And Masawa does a 180 degree flip landing face first.

55:25.767 --> 55:27.769
[SPEAKER_02]: Now the crowd starts chanting for Masawa.

55:28.970 --> 55:29.991
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yeah.

55:30.952 --> 55:31.793
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, this is so fun.

55:32.194 --> 55:34.136
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the momentum swings are fabulous.

55:34.216 --> 55:37.099
[SPEAKER_03]: No one really holds the advantage for more than a couple of minutes.

55:38.446 --> 55:41.291
[SPEAKER_02]: Kobashi's throwing these wicked suplexes.

55:41.391 --> 55:45.578
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, both of these guys are just throwing just the kitchen sink at one another.

55:45.618 --> 55:49.264
[SPEAKER_02]: Kobashi hits a face down suplex for a two count.

55:49.585 --> 55:59.842
[SPEAKER_02]: They'd eventually go outside to the ramp and Kobashi hits a DDT on the ramp and throws him back into the ring for another two count.

55:59.862 --> 56:02.547
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's just, again, the high impact.

56:02.527 --> 56:08.816
[SPEAKER_02]: up from these two and just the thuds, I think, how many thuds did you hear in this match?

56:08.876 --> 56:10.318
[SPEAKER_02]: It had to come close to it, doesn't.

56:10.699 --> 56:11.480
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I would think so.

56:11.620 --> 56:18.510
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think that's probably right, maybe a little bit more than that, and even the forearms, they just smoke each other with the forearms.

56:19.051 --> 56:27.403
[SPEAKER_03]: We see all kinds of forearms battles now, where the guys almost barely lean into each other and they look stupid and they're in every single match right now.

56:27.383 --> 56:29.365
[SPEAKER_03]: you would not want to be in these forearm battles.

56:29.405 --> 56:32.309
[SPEAKER_03]: Like these weren't, they were knockin' the taste out of each other's mouths.

56:32.649 --> 56:35.893
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was, uh, those were very, very rough.

56:36.093 --> 56:38.115
[SPEAKER_03]: So very little rest for them.

56:38.175 --> 56:44.983
[SPEAKER_03]: They would do this huge bump and then their transition stuff to get to the next bump were stiff shots with chops and forearms.

56:45.184 --> 56:50.249
[SPEAKER_03]: And Kobashi throws one of the stiffest chops that's ever been seen in wrestling and Masawa was eating a bunch of those, too.

56:50.350 --> 56:52.312
[SPEAKER_03]: So no rest for these guys.

56:52.412 --> 56:55.095
[SPEAKER_03]: It was just, uh, punishment, after punishment.

56:55.970 --> 56:59.296
[SPEAKER_02]: What I did enjoy, though, was the selling between the two.

56:59.356 --> 57:00.558
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

57:00.578 --> 57:01.960
[SPEAKER_02]: There was good timing here.

57:02.160 --> 57:04.664
[SPEAKER_02]: They weren't really no selling too much.

57:05.105 --> 57:06.588
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a little bit of it at the end.

57:06.888 --> 57:08.611
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think it's just one of those.

57:08.651 --> 57:10.274
[SPEAKER_02]: This is my last effort.

57:10.394 --> 57:12.197
[SPEAKER_02]: I know the end is coming type deals.

57:12.998 --> 57:13.098
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

57:13.118 --> 57:14.721
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish I was there for that today.

57:14.701 --> 57:16.124
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, yeah, exactly.

57:16.324 --> 57:24.019
[SPEAKER_03]: And now we get the thing where, you know, everybody kicks out at one and everybody takes the German super-exit gets out of, and it's such a cliche.

57:24.059 --> 57:25.482
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't really mean anything anymore.

57:26.043 --> 57:28.628
[SPEAKER_03]: But these guys would take these things and they would sell it.

57:28.788 --> 57:30.111
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mentioned,

57:30.479 --> 57:54.409
[SPEAKER_03]: Missile was body language, did it for him more than his face, although late in this match, you see the exhaustion and the, he almost looks foggy like, like he's brains a little scrambled may have been where he's just trying to put together the end, and Kobashi had the same look, but Kobashi has these big eyes, and you know, his face is very, it many modes very, very well.

57:55.030 --> 57:57.313
[SPEAKER_03]: And when he's in pain,

57:57.293 --> 58:07.506
[SPEAKER_03]: The person in the last row understands everything that he's going through and so that carried the crowd along for the ride because they knew what a trial this was for each guy

58:08.482 --> 58:30.895
[SPEAKER_02]: They've been wrestling this style for at least 13 years at this point, and you mentioned just the lack there of which almost is kind of a blessing in disguise here of title defenses in all Japan just and how important they were in the triple crown because who in the world could sustain this type of punishment will just say twice a month.

58:31.448 --> 58:33.533
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, thank goodness you're right.

58:33.553 --> 58:39.267
[SPEAKER_03]: They would do basically three week tours or so, maybe four week tours, and then end with the big show.

58:39.528 --> 58:47.046
[SPEAKER_03]: And all Japan in particular, it would be like the double tag team titles would headline one, and then the next one would be the triple crown.

58:47.086 --> 58:47.888
[SPEAKER_03]: So the triple crown.

58:48.847 --> 59:13.943
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, four or five defenses a year not even something maybe six I'd have to go back and just like check because there are resource to see that but yeah you you don't want to do this to the rest of the time they were in kind of trios matches on the house shows house shows be trios matches where they could work a 15 minute match but only do five of it and that probably preserved everybody's sanity and hospitals.

59:14.632 --> 59:16.777
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, too.

59:16.797 --> 59:20.064
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I went, I mentioned the DDT on the ramp.

59:20.144 --> 59:23.011
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, Kobashi now is going back to his famous chops.

59:23.171 --> 59:27.040
[SPEAKER_02]: His, uh, masala goes for goes to a knee at this point.

59:27.922 --> 59:31.189
[SPEAKER_02]: He Irish whips masala, but.

59:31.169 --> 59:36.375
[SPEAKER_02]: He counters the reverse or sorry, he counters the Irish whip and Kobashi counters with the knee.

59:36.896 --> 59:43.683
[SPEAKER_02]: It hits two release dragon suplexes, so working on the neck and he follows it up with a full Nelson.

59:43.924 --> 59:46.446
[SPEAKER_02]: Masawa is in serious pain, just good selling hero.

59:46.467 --> 59:47.127
[SPEAKER_02]: We're all in the bumps.

59:47.147 --> 59:47.848
[SPEAKER_02]: Just look nasty.

59:49.570 --> 59:50.671
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they knew how to do this.

59:50.711 --> 59:51.973
[SPEAKER_03]: And that was one thing.

59:52.473 --> 59:56.518
[SPEAKER_03]: All Japan and Noah, they their suplexes were

59:56.903 --> 59:58.425
[SPEAKER_03]: some of the roughest in the whole business.

59:58.745 --> 01:00:03.451
[SPEAKER_03]: And Kobashi was giving, and he's usually the guy that took him.

01:00:03.551 --> 01:00:07.856
[SPEAKER_03]: He's taken some of the most famous head bumps off of suplexes.

01:00:08.137 --> 01:00:11.701
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a match of Steve Williams that you watched through your fingers, even through today.

01:00:12.061 --> 01:00:25.898
[SPEAKER_03]: And Stan Hansen almost killed him a few times, but here he was giving them in a way that we don't always seen Kobashi give him, but he was, he was going in hard on the

01:00:26.418 --> 01:00:30.504
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, so Masala gets out of the full Nelson.

01:00:31.345 --> 01:00:32.827
[SPEAKER_02]: Kabashi starts delivering chops.

01:00:33.027 --> 01:00:39.836
[SPEAKER_02]: Finally, Masala is beginning to know so a few and just slaps the hell out of Kabashi at this point.

01:00:40.517 --> 01:00:44.983
[SPEAKER_02]: They start trading chops in four arms, and it just, yeah, pays picks up once again.

01:00:46.195 --> 01:00:49.679
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Kobashi with a back suplex for another two count.

01:00:49.699 --> 01:00:59.631
[SPEAKER_02]: He goes for another suplex, but Masala counters with four arms and hits a, I believe a tiger, she's a tiger suplex or a tiger driver, 85 here at this point.

01:00:59.651 --> 01:01:05.939
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it was a, I thought it was a tiger suplex, but maybe it was a right, but yeah, you, yeah, with Kobashi's arms pinned behind him.

01:01:07.681 --> 01:01:11.446
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Kobashi gets up, but Masala starts hitting a series of four arms.

01:01:11.606 --> 01:01:15.831
[SPEAKER_02]: Kobashi goes down.

01:01:16.722 --> 01:01:18.465
[SPEAKER_03]: Whoever's on his back is getting the chance.

01:01:18.525 --> 01:01:20.689
[SPEAKER_03]: Whoever's on his back is getting the chance.

01:01:20.709 --> 01:01:25.618
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Masala goes for a tiger driver 91 Kobashi blocks it.

01:01:26.760 --> 01:01:30.947
[SPEAKER_02]: And if we get a tiger, this is a tiger driver 85 now.

01:01:31.007 --> 01:01:34.113
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe it's the first one for a two count.

01:01:34.754 --> 01:01:37.579
[SPEAKER_02]: Get a tiger suplex once again for a two count.

01:01:37.599 --> 01:01:40.063
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wrote in all caps, this one was nasty.

01:01:40.313 --> 01:01:46.950
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was harsh and the crowd is starting to come up because they're starting to believe we may get a finish anytime now.

01:01:47.491 --> 01:01:50.779
[SPEAKER_03]: They weren't had a ways to go, but they were starting to believe.

01:01:52.801 --> 01:01:59.293
[SPEAKER_02]: But could you believe that the the pace that these guys were now setting at this point again, just later in their career.

01:01:59.313 --> 01:01:59.654
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:02:00.054 --> 01:02:00.756
[SPEAKER_03]: Cardio monsters.

01:02:00.796 --> 01:02:01.076
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:02:01.196 --> 01:02:01.697
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

01:02:02.499 --> 01:02:02.599
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:02:02.619 --> 01:02:05.805
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's they did that over and over again.

01:02:05.825 --> 01:02:11.856
[SPEAKER_03]: You know that they would do 30 minute draws during the tournament time to save.

01:02:12.595 --> 01:02:22.241
[SPEAKER_03]: for dramatic purposes and also just to save jobs for guys, you know, not to pin them too often and things, but these guys can go 30 minutes and it was not 15 minutes of reverse chin locks.

01:02:22.642 --> 01:02:23.685
[SPEAKER_03]: It was go go go.

01:02:24.087 --> 01:02:24.408
[SPEAKER_02]: No.

01:02:24.448 --> 01:02:29.557
[SPEAKER_02]: Masawa locks on, and I can't recall the move, some sort of arm stretch.

01:02:29.938 --> 01:02:31.781
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it didn't quite look like a stretch plum.

01:02:31.801 --> 01:02:37.451
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's just more like a torque in a couple of, yeah, I think released and hold them applying it back on.

01:02:37.892 --> 01:02:44.965
[SPEAKER_02]: But he locked on a stretch, like a modified abdominal stretch, and then he hit another tiger driver 85 for it too.

01:02:44.945 --> 01:02:56.410
[SPEAKER_02]: Then, a few, probably 30 seconds later, Kentah hits a dragon's suplex, another one that just look vicious, and locks on a sleeper hold.

01:02:56.431 --> 01:02:59.377
[SPEAKER_02]: So we mentioned the arm with Missail working at Kobashi.

01:02:59.858 --> 01:03:02.163
[SPEAKER_02]: Kobashi in turn is working on the neck of Missaila.

01:03:02.925 --> 01:03:03.426
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.

01:03:03.659 --> 01:03:04.660
[SPEAKER_02]: unbelievable.

01:03:05.461 --> 01:03:17.737
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, it's fantastic story telling and you see them sell the effects of it more and more as the match goes on telling you that every bit of this is starting to work in both directions.

01:03:17.757 --> 01:03:24.166
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, when Kobashi has a few seconds, he'll grab his arm and grimace and pain a little bit.

01:03:24.626 --> 01:03:29.953
[SPEAKER_03]: They're careful about showing the cumulative effect and that just adds to the drama.

01:03:30.794 --> 01:03:43.791
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I mentioned the sleeper hold, a few seconds later, Kobashi turns it into another really suplex with Masawa landing on his head, for probably the third time in the match.

01:03:43.811 --> 01:03:52.923
[SPEAKER_02]: And Kobashi with the forearm, oh, just, yeah, I'm literally just cringing at this point, but also just in awe of what these two are putting together.

01:03:54.405 --> 01:03:58.050
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're very, very tough men,

01:03:59.127 --> 01:04:06.142
[SPEAKER_03]: It shows a level of trust between the two of them also to even let somebody do things like this to you be fair.

01:04:06.202 --> 01:04:11.313
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they must have absolutely trusted one or another that, you know, I do this.

01:04:11.613 --> 01:04:18.047
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll get the bump right, but you know, you wouldn't necessarily leave that to anyone, but these guys know each other very, very well.

01:04:19.343 --> 01:04:21.711
[SPEAKER_02]: This part of the match, I think, worked for me as well.

01:04:22.253 --> 01:04:26.627
[SPEAKER_02]: Kobashi hitting his laryat for a two count.

01:04:26.647 --> 01:04:32.205
[SPEAKER_02]: But after the two count, both men just laid down motionless for about 20 seconds or so.

01:04:32.270 --> 01:04:35.774
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the Larry, it was, that came later for Kobashi.

01:04:35.794 --> 01:04:40.660
[SPEAKER_03]: That was not one of his finishers in all Japan, for instance.

01:04:40.820 --> 01:04:42.222
[SPEAKER_03]: You mentioned the moon salt and things.

01:04:42.362 --> 01:04:47.288
[SPEAKER_03]: He had a couple of others, but he jumped off the top a lot in all Japan.

01:04:47.308 --> 01:04:51.253
[SPEAKER_03]: He won the triple crown by hitting a leg drop off the top on Tauai for the first time.

01:04:52.134 --> 01:04:54.737
[SPEAKER_03]: That was the Larry, it came later.

01:04:54.817 --> 01:05:00.083
[SPEAKER_03]: So we had seen a lot of the moves, Tiger Dragon 85, Tiger Dragon 91, all Japan stuff.

01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:06.093
[SPEAKER_03]: but what we hadn't seen yet are the moves that they're using big time and Noah, they're coming.

01:05:06.735 --> 01:05:08.720
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't have them yet, but we're starting to build it that.

01:05:08.740 --> 01:05:11.085
[SPEAKER_03]: So now Kabashi's starting to pull out the new stuff.

01:05:11.217 --> 01:05:15.525
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, all right, well, I tried to, I tried the classics on missile when they're not working.

01:05:15.545 --> 01:05:34.339
[SPEAKER_03]: I need to pull out the big guns and he ended up working a pretty stiff Larry at the good news about a Larry, it is, you know, I'll take a Larry at fairly safe, you know, as long as you put it in the right spot on the chest, the other guy, you know, the guy takes the pump, the saw would took a bumps for it, and so yeah, and now we're, now we're starting to see the later stuff, the stuff off the new album.

01:05:35.078 --> 01:05:40.047
[SPEAKER_02]: You're seeing the sweat every time these guys are hitting forms and chops just knocked off of each other.

01:05:40.107 --> 01:05:42.752
[SPEAKER_02]: Shout out to Justin join who I know is listening.

01:05:42.792 --> 01:05:44.194
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a huge fan of sweaters.

01:05:46.258 --> 01:05:47.861
[SPEAKER_02]: Plenty of that in this match.

01:05:48.061 --> 01:05:49.684
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of sweat.

01:05:49.704 --> 01:05:51.768
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, they both were out to the ramp.

01:05:52.729 --> 01:05:54.613
[SPEAKER_02]: But she goes for a suplex to the ramp.

01:05:54.633 --> 01:05:55.494
[SPEAKER_03]: And we know what's coming.

01:05:55.514 --> 01:05:58.099
[SPEAKER_03]: If you know this match, you know what's coming.

01:05:58.467 --> 01:06:00.610
[SPEAKER_03]: blows my mind every single time over.

01:06:00.630 --> 01:06:01.772
[SPEAKER_02]: You're about to get to a part of it.

01:06:02.013 --> 01:06:02.694
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, for sure.

01:06:03.094 --> 01:06:05.658
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Sauer reversed it into a suplex onto the ramp of his own.

01:06:07.020 --> 01:06:08.042
[SPEAKER_03]: That's no picnic either.

01:06:08.062 --> 01:06:09.364
[SPEAKER_03]: We're not even to the rough part yet.

01:06:09.765 --> 01:06:09.985
[SPEAKER_02]: No.

01:06:10.326 --> 01:06:10.606
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no.

01:06:10.626 --> 01:06:11.047
[SPEAKER_02]: We're good.

01:06:11.067 --> 01:06:12.349
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very, very close.

01:06:13.210 --> 01:06:16.836
[SPEAKER_02]: Masala with a diving forearm to the outside on the ramp.

01:06:16.856 --> 01:06:20.121
[SPEAKER_02]: So I believe he came in, went back into the rain and came back out.

01:06:20.405 --> 01:06:44.596
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, almost like a tope suacita except he, he went an exceeding distance, like a little farther than you think he could go and, and Kobashi is down on one knee, which gives him the right angle, but he dives through the middle and top rope and goes a long way considering how deep into the match they are and clobbers Kobashi with a forearm that when he starts the move, you think he can't reach him from, oh, he did reach him.

01:06:46.799 --> 01:06:50.243
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, they turned back the clock on this night in 2003.

01:06:51.573 --> 01:06:52.755
[SPEAKER_02]: And here we go, by the way.

01:06:54.037 --> 01:07:00.586
[SPEAKER_02]: Masala goes for a tiger suplex, Kobashi blocks it, and then this is the big one.

01:07:00.626 --> 01:07:11.522
[SPEAKER_02]: Masala breaks through with a dragon suplex from the ramp to the floor and canta Kobashi lands on his head.

01:07:11.654 --> 01:07:17.164
[SPEAKER_03]: impossible move.

01:07:17.825 --> 01:07:22.434
[SPEAKER_03]: As soon as he locks it in, you are 100% convinced that he's going to break out of that.

01:07:23.335 --> 01:07:35.417
[SPEAKER_03]: There's just no way in the world he's going to take that move from the no way are they going to do it and then he does it and not only does he do it he doesn't it's not even really released the way you normally do he takes that thing right in the back of his head.

01:07:35.633 --> 01:07:37.259
[SPEAKER_03]: it's an incredible pump.

01:07:37.319 --> 01:07:38.081
[SPEAKER_03]: It's scary.

01:07:38.463 --> 01:07:39.546
[SPEAKER_03]: They should never have done it.

01:07:40.550 --> 01:07:46.089
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's a terrifying moment, no matter how many times you watch it.

01:07:46.109 --> 01:07:46.470
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, my.

01:07:46.636 --> 01:07:50.361
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I lost it at this point even though I knew it was coming.

01:07:51.983 --> 01:08:00.915
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, both men, of course, selling this greatly and rightfully so though the ref starts the 20 count, the famed 20 count.

01:08:01.015 --> 01:08:04.660
[SPEAKER_02]: Get all the way up to 18, Masawa finally rolls in.

01:08:04.680 --> 01:08:09.667
[SPEAKER_02]: 19, Kobashi rolls in at about 19 and a half.

01:08:09.887 --> 01:08:12.691
[SPEAKER_02]: And this was when that worked and it should of anyway.

01:08:12.831 --> 01:08:16.356
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he just took one of the most

01:08:16.876 --> 01:08:35.216
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and they worked out well, it's it's done now where the guy plays it up so much, but Kabashi kind of oozed into the ring, instead of just suddenly exploded into it, the way the guys do it now they're like 19 and then they dive in, and it's still kind of works in Japan, another way to use to, but Harry almost is just like crawling.

01:08:35.536 --> 01:08:43.204
[SPEAKER_03]: It looks like the the the guys and the cartoons and the desert crawling toward the Oasis, he's just kind of barely pulling himself into the ring and he was

01:08:43.184 --> 01:08:46.739
[SPEAKER_03]: is barely picking his feet up to roll into the thing.

01:08:46.759 --> 01:08:51.338
[SPEAKER_03]: So, selling it again beautifully like he was almost killed because he was almost killed.

01:08:51.689 --> 01:08:58.618
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and at this point, masala crawls over for the cover and gets it to you count.

01:08:59.079 --> 01:09:01.201
[SPEAKER_02]: The crowd once again is going nuts.

01:09:01.542 --> 01:09:02.283
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:09:02.303 --> 01:09:05.307
[SPEAKER_03]: And you say nuts, look at the background.

01:09:05.367 --> 01:09:08.250
[SPEAKER_03]: There are people jumping up and down in there.

01:09:08.270 --> 01:09:12.316
[SPEAKER_03]: See, I mean, not just cheering, not just pumping their fists in the air.

01:09:12.536 --> 01:09:14.999
[SPEAKER_03]: There are people leaping into the air for this.

01:09:15.119 --> 01:09:17.182
[SPEAKER_03]: And not joy on their feet.

01:09:17.202 --> 01:09:18.844
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't see that much now.

01:09:18.824 --> 01:09:19.886
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's more coming.

01:09:21.028 --> 01:09:21.970
[SPEAKER_02]: There is more.

01:09:22.090 --> 01:09:23.834
[SPEAKER_02]: There's much more, but there is more.

01:09:24.515 --> 01:09:29.224
[SPEAKER_02]: I did point out a young Kenta at Ringside trying to encourage Kobashi.

01:09:29.485 --> 01:09:31.188
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, how about that?

01:09:31.289 --> 01:09:33.593
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, young Kenta down there and uh...

01:09:34.147 --> 01:09:36.370
[SPEAKER_03]: That was when he was in incredible shape.

01:09:36.390 --> 01:09:37.752
[SPEAKER_03]: He was almost an issue, Morty shape.

01:09:37.792 --> 01:09:38.974
[SPEAKER_03]: He had that build and things.

01:09:38.994 --> 01:09:41.457
[SPEAKER_03]: That was before the injuries pile up on him as well.

01:09:41.617 --> 01:09:43.680
[SPEAKER_03]: So, by the way, super nice guy.

01:09:43.720 --> 01:09:45.283
[SPEAKER_03]: I got to talk to him for a little while.

01:09:45.363 --> 01:09:50.830
[SPEAKER_03]: We happened to be in the same hotel when I was there for that rest of Kingdom and it was super nice guy.

01:09:50.870 --> 01:09:55.757
[SPEAKER_03]: It really kind of fans and can't say enough good things but kind of.

01:09:55.777 --> 01:10:00.764
[SPEAKER_02]: That's fantastic, especially since he made his way back after his unfortunate United States run.

01:10:00.884 --> 01:10:03.428
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's what you get when you sign

01:10:04.184 --> 01:10:08.257
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he got some nasty shoulder injuries and not a whole lot else out of that run.

01:10:10.463 --> 01:10:12.470
[SPEAKER_02]: Very, very unfortunate.

01:10:13.132 --> 01:10:13.232
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

01:10:13.634 --> 01:10:15.076
[SPEAKER_02]: And I lost it.

01:10:15.276 --> 01:10:17.860
[SPEAKER_02]: Here it is right here, yep.

01:10:17.880 --> 01:10:21.586
[SPEAKER_02]: So Masawa hits a, I believe a shining wizard knee.

01:10:21.866 --> 01:10:23.188
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what that was.

01:10:23.248 --> 01:10:26.493
[SPEAKER_02]: It was definitely a very high knee and he gets a two count.

01:10:27.735 --> 01:10:32.462
[SPEAKER_02]: So a few seconds later, Kobashi with a big shop, both guys are stumbling.

01:10:33.483 --> 01:10:36.047
[SPEAKER_02]: We get two spinning back elbows.

01:10:36.487 --> 01:10:40.333
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Masawa breaks out the Emerald Flowshan.

01:10:40.634 --> 01:10:42.120
[SPEAKER_03]: Now we've come to the modern day.

01:10:42.260 --> 01:10:43.927
[SPEAKER_03]: Now he's using his current finisher.

01:10:43.987 --> 01:10:46.517
[SPEAKER_03]: He's tried everything he's ever used in the past.

01:10:46.899 --> 01:10:50.051
[SPEAKER_03]: It ain't workin' I need the new move on Kobash.

01:10:50.091 --> 01:10:51.336
[SPEAKER_03]: First time we've seen it in this match.

01:10:51.721 --> 01:10:54.144
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so the tiger driver 85 was way back.

01:10:54.204 --> 01:10:57.828
[SPEAKER_02]: The tiger driver 91, he's tried multiple times and Kobashi's blocked it.

01:10:58.628 --> 01:11:01.451
[SPEAKER_02]: Unable to block the Emerald Flosion.

01:11:01.552 --> 01:11:03.434
[SPEAKER_02]: We get the one, we get the two.

01:11:04.315 --> 01:11:06.136
[SPEAKER_02]: Kobashi kicks out at about 2.9.

01:11:06.497 --> 01:11:13.304
[SPEAKER_02]: This is unprecedented the first time anyone has ever kicked out of Masawa's Emerald Flosion finished.

01:11:13.945 --> 01:11:16.868
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and a lot of people in that building were convinced that was the end.

01:11:18.417 --> 01:11:21.766
[SPEAKER_02]: If I had been watching it back then, I probably would have said this match is over.

01:11:22.146 --> 01:11:22.327
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

01:11:22.588 --> 01:11:22.788
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

01:11:23.149 --> 01:11:23.610
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

01:11:23.670 --> 01:11:24.974
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that was the message they were sending.

01:11:25.014 --> 01:11:28.663
[SPEAKER_03]: So it always finally hit the biggie, but nope, Kobashi's still alive.

01:11:28.947 --> 01:11:32.131
[SPEAKER_02]: Once again, crowd is still going crazy.

01:11:32.192 --> 01:11:36.077
[SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned it with people in the background, just jumping up and down with this.

01:11:37.539 --> 01:11:42.466
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, Masala, after a few seconds, goes for another tiger driver, 91.

01:11:43.848 --> 01:11:44.368
[SPEAKER_02]: Can't hit it.

01:11:45.410 --> 01:11:49.996
[SPEAKER_02]: Kabashi just, yeah, almost drops to a knee at this point, but he's blocked him multiple times.

01:11:50.637 --> 01:11:56.305
[SPEAKER_02]: Finally, Masala goes for it again, but Kabashi reverses it with a back body drop.

01:11:57.179 --> 01:11:57.760
[SPEAKER_02]: It's out of it.

01:11:58.060 --> 01:12:05.692
[SPEAKER_02]: A few seconds later, Masawa goes for a close line or a lary at Kobashi counters with his own lary it and gets a two count.

01:12:06.032 --> 01:12:12.121
[SPEAKER_02]: How is he mustering up the energy after taking that dragon suit plex to the outside and the Emerald Flowsion.

01:12:12.782 --> 01:12:16.388
[SPEAKER_03]: And Masawa is selling everything by not doing a big dramatic kick out.

01:12:16.408 --> 01:12:17.810
[SPEAKER_03]: He's barely getting his shoulder.

01:12:18.050 --> 01:12:22.317
[SPEAKER_03]: Everything they're doing is taking the quote unquote last ounce of their strength.

01:12:22.337 --> 01:12:23.638
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the one thing these days.

01:12:23.699 --> 01:12:26.022
[SPEAKER_02]: It's missing.

01:12:26.407 --> 01:12:29.955
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, if they did that thing now in the AEW in particular, it's a one count.

01:12:31.338 --> 01:12:37.111
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a one count in the guy pops up, ah, you know, that type of thing and it's no, they sold it, they sold it instead.

01:12:37.933 --> 01:12:38.194
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

01:12:38.394 --> 01:12:39.677
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to pay for one second.

01:12:40.439 --> 01:12:42.323
[SPEAKER_02]: How many one counts would you do in a year?

01:12:44.378 --> 01:12:52.133
[SPEAKER_03]: maybe one I don't particularly care for I don't think it's I think it's a mist dramatic moment I don't think it's that dramatic.

01:12:52.153 --> 01:13:05.560
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't I'm not a big fan of one counts anywhere really I don't think they make a whole lot of sense and I think all it does is make whatever happened just look week I'd yeah, I'd maybe do it once every couple years

01:13:06.080 --> 01:13:15.346
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, certainly not much and maybe only in very specific circumstances, but I mean, how devastating could the move be if the guy only gets a one count out of it, it's just to me it just hurts to move.

01:13:16.629 --> 01:13:18.013
[SPEAKER_02]: It really does.

01:13:18.213 --> 01:13:24.682
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, that's what again, but I makes me love this match so much and we're finally getting to the end, and I'm kind of sad at this point.

01:13:26.424 --> 01:13:31.531
[SPEAKER_02]: Kobashi hits a brainbuster after he hits the laryat and again.

01:13:31.591 --> 01:13:34.916
[SPEAKER_02]: It's probably not kicks out at two drops him.

01:13:35.156 --> 01:13:37.740
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, directly on his head for probably the four time in the match.

01:13:37.760 --> 01:13:41.525
[SPEAKER_03]: Like he's planting the flag back in a golf hole straight up and down.

01:13:41.605 --> 01:13:43.107
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it's just nasty.

01:13:44.302 --> 01:13:56.740
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, just I highly encourage everybody, I'll say it again, but when the match ends, which is coming very quickly, to go and watch this match, I will give you the link in just how you just watch it for yourself.

01:13:57.240 --> 01:14:02.448
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wrote after that, after Masala kicks out to you, I wrote this crowd in three exclamation points.

01:14:03.088 --> 01:14:05.592
[SPEAKER_02]: High fever pitch again, resensing the end.

01:14:06.233 --> 01:14:10.579
[SPEAKER_02]: Kobashi finally gets Masala on his shoulders.

01:14:11.268 --> 01:14:20.463
[SPEAKER_02]: and he hits his new finishing maneuver, the burning hammer, one, two, three.

01:14:21.945 --> 01:14:23.228
[SPEAKER_02]: Ken to Kobashi is done it.

01:14:23.809 --> 01:14:28.416
[SPEAKER_02]: He is now the GHC Heavyweight Champion in Pro Wrestling Noah.

01:14:30.016 --> 01:14:31.701
[SPEAKER_02]: He is exhausted.

01:14:31.741 --> 01:14:35.231
[SPEAKER_02]: Head is lying on Moussao's stomach.

01:14:36.174 --> 01:14:38.400
[SPEAKER_02]: Eyes are almost rolled in the back of his head but not quite.

01:14:38.781 --> 01:14:42.793
[SPEAKER_02]: What were some of your thoughts as the burning hammer finished came into play here?

01:14:43.010 --> 01:14:48.282
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the burning hammer was one of those moves that you hope they didn't do in every match.

01:14:48.322 --> 01:14:50.827
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, and thankfully, it was just his big match.

01:14:50.847 --> 01:14:53.874
[SPEAKER_03]: Fincher, their compilations of all of Kobashi's burning hammers.

01:14:53.894 --> 01:14:54.836
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't do it with all that much.

01:14:55.337 --> 01:14:57.342
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank goodness, it's a dangerous move right there.

01:14:57.422 --> 01:15:02.132
[SPEAKER_03]: But it does look like what it was meant to be, which is an utter kill shot.

01:15:02.348 --> 01:15:06.017
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's being turned into a transition move now.

01:15:06.077 --> 01:15:09.204
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's the story of every Fender share in the world.

01:15:09.264 --> 01:15:16.341
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the vertical subplexes used to be a Fender share, and I'm not trying to say that we can't evolve and all that kind of stuff.

01:15:16.827 --> 01:15:21.336
[SPEAKER_03]: hard to explain when you saw a burning hammer back then, just what a kill shot that was.

01:15:22.318 --> 01:15:25.425
[SPEAKER_03]: And because he didn't finish off every opponent with it, he didn't do it every match.

01:15:25.545 --> 01:15:28.672
[SPEAKER_03]: He only brought it out and emergencies only.

01:15:28.932 --> 01:15:32.640
[SPEAKER_03]: And what's a bigger emergency than the GHC heavyweight title match with Masawa.

01:15:32.720 --> 01:15:34.684
[SPEAKER_03]: It was just another signal.

01:15:34.664 --> 01:15:43.979
[SPEAKER_03]: to the fans that you were watching something extraordinarily important that he doesn't pull this out to win a trio's match in, you know, in negada.

01:15:44.139 --> 01:15:52.032
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, this is, this is for a buddha can hall, main event, world title match, and he is desperate.

01:15:52.012 --> 01:15:53.354
[SPEAKER_03]: He's in terrible pain.

01:15:53.495 --> 01:15:56.840
[SPEAKER_03]: He knows that he is one move away from losing this thing.

01:15:57.462 --> 01:16:00.547
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's time to swing for the fences to use a baseball cliche.

01:16:00.747 --> 01:16:02.510
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what the burning hammer was.

01:16:03.031 --> 01:16:05.015
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't do the burning hammer if you're okay.

01:16:05.215 --> 01:16:07.239
[SPEAKER_03]: You do the burning hammer if you have no other choice.

01:16:07.760 --> 01:16:10.324
[SPEAKER_03]: And that was always how Kobashi portrayed it.

01:16:10.658 --> 01:16:19.876
[SPEAKER_03]: He brings it out here and beats the legendary Masawa with it, and a new champion is crowned after so long.

01:16:19.916 --> 01:16:23.944
[SPEAKER_03]: You needed something, and he was legit about, I mean, we all knew the Kovashi was the real deal.

01:16:24.064 --> 01:16:28.453
[SPEAKER_03]: And after a match like this, how can you do anything, but respect the new champion?

01:16:28.573 --> 01:16:30.557
[SPEAKER_03]: It did everything it was meant to do.

01:16:31.533 --> 01:16:32.815
[SPEAKER_02]: 33 and a half minutes.

01:16:33.336 --> 01:16:41.870
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, Kobashi emerges victorious and they've melted five stars wrestling observer wrestling observer newsletter match of the year 2003.

01:16:43.673 --> 01:16:45.135
[SPEAKER_02]: For me, easy five.

01:16:45.435 --> 01:16:47.959
[SPEAKER_02]: I was absolutely from start to finish.

01:16:48.180 --> 01:16:48.901
[SPEAKER_02]: Eyes were glued.

01:16:49.181 --> 01:16:50.464
[SPEAKER_02]: The story telling was great.

01:16:50.504 --> 01:16:52.647
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I mentioned with the with the limbs and

01:16:52.627 --> 01:17:09.302
[SPEAKER_02]: breaking out the big moves but also like selling I think to to perfect points in this and two men knowing each other so well and where the crowd was at in this and just the passing of the torch and with the passing of the torch I will ask you this question as well.

01:17:10.632 --> 01:17:13.095
[SPEAKER_02]: Did, I mean, the hindsight 2020 now.

01:17:13.195 --> 01:17:18.963
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Masala made the right decision, but he was inches away from making Junakiama that guy.

01:17:19.224 --> 01:17:26.614
[SPEAKER_02]: The ace didn't know, I mean, this right move here for sure, going with Kabashi for the next two years.

01:17:27.575 --> 01:17:31.180
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, again, you just didn't know if you were ever going to get a chance to do it.

01:17:31.200 --> 01:17:34.264
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think it is, plus Akiyama, a little bit younger.

01:17:34.585 --> 01:17:37.308
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think Masala just thought we still have some time with Akiyama.

01:17:37.328 --> 01:17:38.530
[SPEAKER_03]: Turned out to be correct.

01:17:38.662 --> 01:17:44.913
[SPEAKER_03]: And once Kobashi, well, I mean, he ended up having about with cancer later, Kobashi went through a lot in his life.

01:17:45.353 --> 01:17:51.203
[SPEAKER_03]: And all those injuries and things that he did pile up, he got some classics from Kobashi during this time.

01:17:52.045 --> 01:17:58.676
[SPEAKER_03]: The good feelings toward Kobashi from the crowd, had he lost this one and never gotten that title.

01:17:58.957 --> 01:17:59.758
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like

01:18:00.937 --> 01:18:08.191
[SPEAKER_03]: The fans wouldn't have turned on Masawa and Noah, but I think there would have been a thing of like, man, I can't believe that never happened.

01:18:09.433 --> 01:18:10.856
[SPEAKER_03]: It would have been a miss, you know?

01:18:11.096 --> 01:18:17.308
[SPEAKER_03]: There would have been something a miss and that would have been a miss with Noah had Kobashi never,

01:18:17.288 --> 01:18:28.221
[SPEAKER_03]: gotten to the top there and held that title because he was such a key part of Noah being at the time, best promotion in the world, which I think it was during this time.

01:18:28.401 --> 01:18:31.205
[SPEAKER_03]: And New Japan had kind of fallen on us a year, a little bit.

01:18:31.625 --> 01:18:36.711
[SPEAKER_03]: American wrestling was doing pretty well for WWE F was anyway doing good business.

01:18:38.153 --> 01:18:45.962
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe not, you know, Steve Austin business, but in the rocket going to Hollywood, and all that stuff, but things were still pretty good, but I think Noah was the best wrestling.

01:18:47.258 --> 01:18:48.520
[SPEAKER_03]: he was a huge part of that.

01:18:48.600 --> 01:18:51.365
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you don't go with him here, does it ever happen?

01:18:51.485 --> 01:18:56.673
[SPEAKER_03]: And then that's kind of a, you end up talking about the him as the best guy that never got that belt.

01:18:56.793 --> 01:19:02.042
[SPEAKER_03]: He had held the triple crown, so it wouldn't have been empty, but it would just said, boy, I'm a son, never gave that to Kobashi.

01:19:02.062 --> 01:19:02.643
[SPEAKER_03]: That's crazy.

01:19:02.843 --> 01:19:07.751
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and kind of checks that box and Kobashi's run was pretty good with it.

01:19:07.931 --> 01:19:11.517
[SPEAKER_03]: And he did manage to move it to Akiyama, which worked also.

01:19:11.597 --> 01:19:13.300
[SPEAKER_03]: So they got a lot of good years out of this.

01:19:13.955 --> 01:19:15.738
[SPEAKER_02]: maybe a little bit lucky as I mentioned.

01:19:15.758 --> 01:19:16.859
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it was the injury.

01:19:16.879 --> 01:19:18.442
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's $2,000 to 2003.

01:19:18.462 --> 01:19:18.602
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:19:18.622 --> 01:19:20.946
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's luck there too.

01:19:20.966 --> 01:19:21.547
[SPEAKER_02]: You're right.

01:19:21.567 --> 01:19:29.779
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, God instinct though to to go with this, but the way he was crowned, you could not have painted a better story in this matter.

01:19:29.799 --> 01:19:29.920
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

01:19:30.480 --> 01:19:31.422
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:19:31.442 --> 01:19:31.542
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:19:31.522 --> 01:19:34.024
[SPEAKER_03]: the guy needed to be an epic thing like that.

01:19:34.225 --> 01:19:37.748
[SPEAKER_03]: And the fact they were able to pull that out, you're just 100%.

01:19:37.808 --> 01:19:43.674
[SPEAKER_03]: Even the Masawa fans were behind Kobashi's champion once the that match wore off.

01:19:43.734 --> 01:19:45.576
[SPEAKER_03]: They're just like, well, we've got a real man as champion.

01:19:45.596 --> 01:19:48.179
[SPEAKER_03]: This, that guy is a champion.

01:19:48.199 --> 01:19:50.441
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, if fans are butts and a match like that will do this.

01:19:51.562 --> 01:19:56.447
[SPEAKER_02]: Gone was the Orange Crush by the way, which I forgot to mention.

01:19:56.507 --> 01:19:59.790
[SPEAKER_02]: Three match and now is got the

01:20:00.496 --> 01:20:00.736
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:20:01.518 --> 01:20:01.838
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

01:20:02.659 --> 01:20:07.326
[SPEAKER_02]: I got a lot of cancel kubashi matches coming down the line here as we go through 2026.

01:20:07.927 --> 01:20:10.491
[SPEAKER_02]: I got his mattress Samoa Joe and October.

01:20:10.511 --> 01:20:12.234
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

01:20:12.254 --> 01:20:13.816
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's one of my favorites.

01:20:13.836 --> 01:20:15.739
[SPEAKER_02]: I watch you early on the day to you.

01:20:17.221 --> 01:20:21.728
[SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned Stan Hanson That was like July 29, 1993

01:20:22.045 --> 01:20:22.686
[SPEAKER_03]: Great one.

01:20:22.706 --> 01:20:23.387
[SPEAKER_03]: The whole goodness.

01:20:23.407 --> 01:20:23.688
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

01:20:23.708 --> 01:20:26.772
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is the physicality of it all there too.

01:20:27.033 --> 01:20:36.207
[SPEAKER_02]: So with you mentioned Kobashi and cancer, uh, Mitsuhara Masawa into beliefs 2009 died in the ring.

01:20:37.208 --> 01:20:37.308
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:20:37.328 --> 01:20:44.880
[SPEAKER_02]: And he had written a letter at some point before this had ever happened and said give this to the person.

01:20:44.860 --> 01:20:47.945
[SPEAKER_02]: that ends up, I don't know, ends up killing me in the ring.

01:20:48.827 --> 01:20:55.538
[SPEAKER_02]: He had an intuition that he was likely going to die in the ring and just basically was saying, this is not your fault.

01:20:56.079 --> 01:20:56.340
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

01:20:56.921 --> 01:20:58.223
[SPEAKER_02]: This is kind of the way I wanted to go.

01:20:59.244 --> 01:21:06.216
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, the thing with Masawa, the move that did it wasn't even a bad bump.

01:21:06.377 --> 01:21:08.961
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a classic example of

01:21:09.076 --> 01:21:36.737
[SPEAKER_03]: one bump too many and there's a line that Jim Ross said is that you never know how many punches you have left on your bump card and then one day it's the last one and for some people it's like dynamite kids back going out and he's never the same or well there's a hundred examples of guys that just got hurt and could never quite come back but for for this one in Missawa it

01:21:37.207 --> 01:21:42.717
[SPEAKER_03]: but all of those crazy bombs just added up and it was the exact of the wrong mix and we lost.

01:21:43.518 --> 01:21:58.084
[SPEAKER_03]: I was very sad and I was surprised, but I can't say I was even stunned, and just like, well, if anyone was going to die in the ring, the way that guy wrestled.

01:21:58.317 --> 01:22:15.267
[SPEAKER_03]: Unfortunately, it wasn't shocking, but you know, you're always surprised when something like that happens and deeply deeply sad, but that style is not sustainable and can't take a bow she is not 60 years old, he was born 1967 and I think right and he walks like he's 90.

01:22:16.469 --> 01:22:18.553
[SPEAKER_03]: He walks like he's 90 and

01:22:19.968 --> 01:22:21.851
[SPEAKER_03]: We're seeing a lot of that strong style.

01:22:21.911 --> 01:22:22.752
[SPEAKER_03]: Come home to Roost.

01:22:22.812 --> 01:22:25.496
[SPEAKER_03]: I watched the Tanahashi retirement ceremony.

01:22:25.596 --> 01:22:33.667
[SPEAKER_03]: One guy is as young as Kenny Omega and Kota Bushi and Will Osprey hobbled to the ring to greet him.

01:22:34.067 --> 01:22:38.213
[SPEAKER_03]: And that high impact stuff looks great.

01:22:38.293 --> 01:22:40.837
[SPEAKER_03]: And in the moment it'll make the audience feel like nothing else.

01:22:41.438 --> 01:22:44.001
[SPEAKER_03]: And then all that comes home.

01:22:44.167 --> 01:23:08.098
[SPEAKER_03]: And when I see Kobashi barely able to walk around now or really struggling to, he runs his own promotion and he's still very active in the wrestling business, but you see every one of these bumps all these years later and we saw a lot of them here that needed to come home to Roost eventually because you just can't do that to the human body what they were doing to each other.

01:23:09.597 --> 01:23:13.082
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably nine times, they drop each other on their heads and next.

01:23:13.724 --> 01:23:14.505
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is incredible.

01:23:14.745 --> 01:23:17.009
[SPEAKER_03]: And look, I love these guys.

01:23:17.289 --> 01:23:20.214
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is an absolutely incredible match.

01:23:20.234 --> 01:23:23.799
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it does have a different perspective to it now.

01:23:23.940 --> 01:23:26.684
[SPEAKER_03]: But they gave us their bodies.

01:23:27.105 --> 01:23:28.266
[SPEAKER_03]: They gave us their bodies.

01:23:28.587 --> 01:23:35.638
[SPEAKER_03]: And the crowd there, booted on Hall that night, left emotionally exhausted and thrilled.

01:23:35.787 --> 01:23:44.211
[SPEAKER_03]: Not many things can have that kind of an impact on people and both an impact on the emotional impact on the audience and the physical impact on the participants.

01:23:45.136 --> 01:23:45.456
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:23:46.197 --> 01:23:47.278
[SPEAKER_02]: I, yeah.

01:23:47.298 --> 01:23:48.780
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, March 1st, 2003.

01:23:48.820 --> 01:24:07.199
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the first five star match I have covered in this project and rightfully so, yeah, it earned every billing and then some, I mean, I'm actually moderately surprised that Dave, because he had he broke the scale for a quarter of Massawa.

01:24:09.262 --> 01:24:10.603
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he could have done it here.

01:24:12.440 --> 01:24:20.233
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, could have, yeah, could have, yeah, you know, the the star rating thing is is always going to be a bone-a-contention.

01:24:20.353 --> 01:24:29.488
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very, very subjective, but I would have a hard time with anyone who watched this match and went mad, you know, taking their videos seriously.

01:24:29.589 --> 01:24:35.899
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just that to me, this is one of the one of the true no-brainer great all-time great matches.

01:24:36.132 --> 01:24:41.144
[SPEAKER_02]: yeah, highly recommend going out of your way to watch it.

01:24:42.186 --> 01:24:45.534
[SPEAKER_02]: I will give people a preview of I believe it's going to be next week.

01:24:45.554 --> 01:24:46.436
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to be covering this.

01:24:46.516 --> 01:24:50.104
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to yet another five star match coming to America.

01:24:50.144 --> 01:24:54.715
[SPEAKER_02]: Brett Hart, Steve Austin, WrestleMania 13.

01:24:54.847 --> 01:24:55.768
[SPEAKER_03]: I was in the building.

01:24:56.308 --> 01:24:57.730
[SPEAKER_03]: I was in the building for that one too.

01:24:58.230 --> 01:25:00.252
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my goodness.

01:25:00.432 --> 01:25:02.054
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, oh, my goodness.

01:25:02.094 --> 01:25:11.924
[SPEAKER_03]: That was another one where every move, every move, the crowd, because that, that one had a divided crowd too, because the Austin was starting to take off and a lot of people loved him.

01:25:12.044 --> 01:25:13.645
[SPEAKER_03]: Brett Hart was still had a big following.

01:25:13.665 --> 01:25:14.466
[SPEAKER_03]: I was a Brett Hart guy.

01:25:14.947 --> 01:25:23.655
[SPEAKER_03]: And every single blow, every single move, whoever was delivering it, that half of the crowd popped, that was an atmosphere,

01:25:23.635 --> 01:25:26.259
[SPEAKER_03]: That was unlike much else I felt alive.

01:25:26.300 --> 01:25:28.804
[SPEAKER_03]: The best match I've ever seen in person, let's say that.

01:25:29.024 --> 01:25:31.729
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's a heck of a ride that one.

01:25:31.949 --> 01:25:34.654
[SPEAKER_03]: And just a brilliantly executed double turn.

01:25:34.694 --> 01:25:37.999
[SPEAKER_03]: And everything, that was, you're going to love dissecting that one.

01:25:38.039 --> 01:25:38.721
[SPEAKER_03]: That was so much fun.

01:25:39.241 --> 01:25:44.310
[SPEAKER_02]: I completely forgot, because you had mentioned to me that you lived in Chicago for a bit of time.

01:25:44.425 --> 01:25:46.089
[SPEAKER_03]: near it near it near enough.

01:25:46.490 --> 01:25:52.004
[SPEAKER_03]: The people in Chicago, Chris Thompson, in particular, would would, would, would shun me if I said I was in Chicago, Gags, I wasn't.

01:25:52.024 --> 01:25:52.846
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't have the address.

01:25:53.147 --> 01:26:00.204
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not a Chicago address, but yeah, I live in the area, so I went to WrestleMania 2, run to WrestleMania 8, and Indianapolis, and 13.

01:26:01.066 --> 01:26:01.287
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:26:02.330 --> 01:26:09.279
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so yeah, you, oh yeah, oh, you got to see the dynamite, so you got to see the British Bulldogs be a great valentine and Bruce beef cake.

01:26:09.339 --> 01:26:29.687
[SPEAKER_03]: I got the best I got the best set of matches because I got the battle royal with all the Chicago bears, which were Yeah, I was among heroes, so I got to see William Perry and then that that the Bulldogs match and then yeah, and then WrestleMania eight was rough, but then 13 had that match with with Austin and and hard that made up for it.

01:26:30.224 --> 01:26:34.169
[SPEAKER_02]: Savage Flair and Piper and Brett Hart held up though for WrestleMania 8.

01:26:34.189 --> 01:26:35.311
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, those, those were really good.

01:26:35.471 --> 01:26:39.917
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the funny thing about WrestleMania 13 was the hot dog match for me.

01:26:40.238 --> 01:26:57.261
[SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of other people, because the extension stands and the bathrooms were full, was the Sultan versus Rocky Maya Via, which would, would go on to do much better later on in life, but at the time, everyone was like, yeah, let's go get somebody.

01:26:58.439 --> 01:27:16.498
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, better things ahead, but at the time they were just they if you were going to miss something that was the one the biggest movie star in the world We all just said out of hell Had we known Jesse had we know we probably would have stuck around and yeah, and probably would have stuck around for that one if we had no

01:27:16.883 --> 01:27:19.447
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, he had the athletic ability.

01:27:19.467 --> 01:27:27.381
[SPEAKER_02]: You could tell there was some charisma, but it didn't allow it to really start to spew out of them till he decided to turn on the fans.

01:27:27.461 --> 01:27:33.792
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, rightfully so, because the fans were turning on him, saying, die, rocky die, and he's a promo artist.

01:27:33.872 --> 01:27:36.236
[SPEAKER_02]: And yes, the most famous, how he works out.

01:27:36.316 --> 01:27:40.343
[SPEAKER_03]: It worked out well for everybody in the world, but now it's not rocky moments there.

01:27:41.251 --> 01:27:46.482
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's, I think that's going to conclude this tour of Mitsuhara, Masawa, and Kenta Kobashi.

01:27:47.443 --> 01:27:49.768
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't, yeah, we did this thing justice.

01:27:49.788 --> 01:27:52.293
[SPEAKER_02]: This was such a fun match.

01:27:53.796 --> 01:27:53.897
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:27:53.917 --> 01:27:54.498
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh.

01:27:54.518 --> 01:27:57.424
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was absolutely brilliant between two brilliant performers.

01:27:57.504 --> 01:28:00.610
[SPEAKER_03]: And like you mentioned, Masawa's,

01:28:01.012 --> 01:28:07.849
[SPEAKER_03]: Prime was probably the mid to late 90s was his absolute prime, but he pulled this one out because he knew he needed to.

01:28:07.890 --> 01:28:16.692
[SPEAKER_03]: And Kabashi's prime was probably late 90s that 98, 99, but he was great before and great after so.

01:28:16.672 --> 01:28:18.514
[SPEAKER_03]: You mentioned they turned back the clock a little bit.

01:28:18.534 --> 01:28:22.479
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, they certainly did, but this was as good as anything.

01:28:22.519 --> 01:28:25.122
[SPEAKER_03]: Either one ever did in their prime, just as good as that.

01:28:25.302 --> 01:28:29.427
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's startling that it's still a startling match.

01:28:29.487 --> 01:28:38.297
[SPEAKER_03]: It holds up and like I said, there are a couple moments in here where you just can't believe what you're seeing and wrestling doesn't make you feel like that too often, but this match will do it.

01:28:38.878 --> 01:28:39.118
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:28:40.499 --> 01:28:52.459
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I talked about it with you in January and before we, well, before I mention that, on your way out, mentioned projects, of course, speaking a strong style, as well as ringside replay.

01:28:52.639 --> 01:29:03.357
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, ringside replays my history website that I like to go back and look at wrestling week by week in the early 1980s, mostly 8182 era and how the different territories interacted with one another.

01:29:03.377 --> 01:29:07.063
[SPEAKER_03]: How guys would move from one to the other and some of the booking patterns

01:29:07.043 --> 01:29:13.112
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of that fun stuff that we can see from a distance now, I like to look back at it and you can draw some lessons from today from it.

01:29:13.132 --> 01:29:14.074
[SPEAKER_03]: So I really enjoy that.

01:29:14.134 --> 01:29:19.782
[SPEAKER_03]: And then of course, my show is speaking a strong style with Jeremy Feinstowns, a great guy, a good friend of mine.

01:29:20.183 --> 01:29:25.912
[SPEAKER_03]: And we do that every Thursday at 530 p.m. Eastern, you can find that on YouTube.

01:29:26.012 --> 01:29:27.394
[SPEAKER_03]: And then it's a podcast too.

01:29:27.414 --> 01:29:32.882
[SPEAKER_03]: You can always find it on the usual podcast stuff where we talk the current

01:29:33.892 --> 01:29:36.936
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to get that back into my regular rotation.

01:29:36.956 --> 01:29:40.441
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to hear your thoughts on Calum Newman.

01:29:41.602 --> 01:29:44.827
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we have a lot of thoughts on Calum.

01:29:44.847 --> 01:29:54.440
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a talented guy who has been put in the top foreign spot and has some work to do to convince everybody that he belongs there.

01:29:54.580 --> 01:29:58.465
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he's talented enough to do it, but similar to David Finlay,

01:29:58.445 --> 01:30:13.210
[SPEAKER_03]: when he first took that spot there are a lot of skeptics just going to see really the guy and so he's got work to do to get there and uh but he has a big match coming up with theota surgery for the world title where he can convince a lot of haters that he's ready for that main event spot.

01:30:13.490 --> 01:30:15.413
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he might be though.

01:30:15.433 --> 01:30:22.545
[SPEAKER_02]: Well mean time's going to tell yeah it's super exciting because there's a big transition time going on in the joy and they need somebody

01:30:23.352 --> 01:30:34.728
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and we're gonna talk a little bit about what might be holding them back and the call may be coming from inside the house Okay, good segue to tune in later on.

01:30:34.828 --> 01:30:36.971
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mentioned having you and Jeremy back.

01:30:37.432 --> 01:30:45.343
[SPEAKER_02]: I think April sounds great because as I mentioned in January Cuz you should go caught a Catchy ory shabata who

01:30:45.914 --> 01:30:47.916
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, April 9th, 2017.

01:30:47.956 --> 01:30:59.049
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's going to be so many ways we can go with this match and just kind of, yeah, even the aftermath and Chibata politics all of it, so much to break down on that one.

01:30:59.530 --> 01:31:00.130
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

01:31:00.150 --> 01:31:00.771
[SPEAKER_03]: Looking forward to it.

01:31:01.392 --> 01:31:01.732
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

01:31:02.793 --> 01:31:03.414
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, folks.

01:31:03.795 --> 01:31:05.256
[SPEAKER_02]: So hopefully you enjoyed this one.

01:31:05.677 --> 01:31:09.321
[SPEAKER_02]: And that has been episode 209, TR and unplugged.

01:31:10.242 --> 01:31:15.448
[SPEAKER_02]: And as always, we'll see you.

01:31:15.968 --> 01:31:37.253
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to go to the toilet?

01:31:37.273 --> 01:31:37.914
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to go to the toilet?

01:31:37.934 --> 01:31:38.574
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to go to the toilet?

01:31:38.594 --> 01:31:39.235
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to go to the toilet?

01:31:39.255 --> 01:31:39.896
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to go to the toilet?

01:31:39.916 --> 01:31:40.557
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to go to the toilet?

01:31:40.577 --> 01:31:41.217
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to go to the toilet?

01:31:41.237 --> 01:31:41.878
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to go to the toilet?

01:31:41.898 --> 01:31:42.539
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to go to the toilet?

01:31:42.559 --> 01:31:43.200
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to go to the toilet?

01:31:43.220 --> 01:31:43.860
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to go to the toilet?

01:31:43.881 --> 01:31:44.521
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to go to the toilet?

01:31:44.541 --> 01:31:45.182
[UNKNOWN]: Do you want to go to the toilet?